The Miracle of Forgiveness

Are you forgiven?

This is the most important question anyone can ever ask. The answer to it changes everything both in our relationships with others and most importantly in our relationship with God.

The Bible says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). This means we all need forgiveness, the situation gets more serious when we see this in Isaiah 59:2.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Our sin has separated us ALL from God, so much so that he does not even hear us, the situation is serious and needs to be resolved, this is an issue that everyone faces, those that commit crime and those that would never dream of doing so, those that give to charity and those that never would, those that are devoutly religious and those that would never set foot in a church building, all equally need forgiveness. James 2:10 says:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

We are all equally sinful before God no matter what we have done, as if we stumble in one area of the Law, one area of Gods standards we are guilty of breaking it all, its the difference between perfection and sinfulness with no inbetween, we all desperately need forgiveness if we are to be reconciled to our creator. So the big question is.

How do we gain this forgiveness?

12th Mormon Prophet Spencer W Kimball in his book The Miracle of Forgiveness said this:

“There is no royal road to repentance, no privileged path to forgiveness. Every man must follow the same course whether he be rich or poor, educated or untrained, tall or short, prince or pauper, king or commoner. ‘For there is no respect of persons with God.’ (Rom. 2:11.) There is only one way. It is a long road spiked with thorns and briars and pitfalls and problems” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 149. See also Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 123).

With regards to how to recieve this forgiveness he says this:

“This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us.” (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 208-209. See also church manual The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, 1979, p. 386, bold added).

This is very consistent with these verses from LDS Scriptures.

1 Nephi 3:7: And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

Alma 11:37: And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

Moroni 10:32: Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

Doctrine and Covenants 25:15: Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

Doctrine and Covenants 58:43: By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:31: For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.

Many people have looked at what these verses say and have called this an Impossible Gospel. If you look at the chain of thought here you can see why.

• God gives us no commandments that we cannot keep.
• You cannot be saved while you are still sinning.
• If you deny yourselves of ALL ungodliness, then His grace is sufficient for you.
• Keep ALL of Gods commandments if you want to go where He is.
• If you have truly repented of your sins, you wont do them again.
• God cannot look upon sin with the least amount of allowance.

Does this sound possible to you? Maybe it does and you are trying to do this in order to gain this forgiveness, then the question has to be asked how are you doing with that? Have you truly denied yourself of ALL ungodliness? Many Mormons when asked this question say “I am trying” or “I have to keep repenting”. Spencer W Kimball had something to say about that in his book too.

“Trying Is Not Sufficient – Nor is repentance 
complete when one merely tries to abandon sin… [see 
Army Officer Story]… To ‘try’ is weak. to ‘do the best 
I can’ is not strong, We must always do better than we 
can. This is true in every walk of life.” (The Miracle of 
Forgiveness, pg. 163-165)

Also

“Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily 
transgression and daily repentance is not that which is 
pleasing in the sight of God.” (Teachings of the Prophet 
Joseph Smith, by Joseph Fielding Smith, Deseret, 1977, pg. 148)

This is sadly no miracle of forgiveness, the Bible says The truth will see you FREE (John 8:32) do you feel free?

In the Bible we see how Jesus dealt with sinners, consider this in light of above.

(On video or read Luke 7:36-50)

Wait a minute, what is the Saviour thinking? Does he not know that there is a repentance process? Does he not know that this woman who everyone knows is a sinner, has a long way to go to achieve this Miracle of Forgiveness? Surely she needed to get baptised first at least?

The answer is no, Jesus Christ the Saviour demonstrates here what true Biblical forgiveness is. Its not found in keeping the commandments, its not found in ridding ourself of sin as that is impossible. Forgiveness is found in coming to Christ and Christ alone with a broken heart and confessing to Him that you are worthy of nothing, that even your good deeds up to this point have been filthy rags in His sight (Isaiah 64:6), and that your putting your trust in Him that by His grace you might know freedom from the consequences of your sin and gain an absolute assurance of your salvation.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So to finish I would just echo the words of Paul by asking you this question.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Galatians 3:2)

Shawn Mccraney Speaking on Mormonism

I am trying to avoid just reposting other peoples material these days, (unless it is wrote for this blog) but I am just listening to this talk right now and it is excellent. Shawn Mccraney who hosts the show Heart of the Matter  is speaking on this video about his background and all things Mormonism. It really is excellent, I know a few people are looking at this blog these days who are just coming out of Mormonism and figuring out life as a Born Again Christian, I think this talk will do you a lot of good. And Anyone else for that matter.

Enjoy and those that watch it please leave any thoughts.

Manti Conversation with a Mormon

Hi all here is the audio of a conversation I had with a Mormon when in Manti, Utah this year, we cover a lot of areas, please give it a listen and leave any thoughts.

Conversation with a Mormon at Manti

(left click to listen, right click, save link as to download)

General Conference October 2012 Review, Saturday Afternoon by Vicky Gilpin

Becoming Goodly parents Elder L Tom Perry

Saturday afternoon sessions open with a talk from Elder L Tom Perry, on becoming goodly parents. He speaks of his appreciation for his own upbringing by his LDS mother and the example set by her.

The LDS Church has a culture of placing high value on families, parents teaching their children the scriptures, praying with them and instilling high moral values. This really is something which i admire about the LDS Church.

Of course the LDS Church has doctrinal reasons for it’s emphasis on family which christians disagree with. Forever familys for instance, although this sounds good, and is something desirable to mankind. Is it what God wants?
The Bible tells us that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, not our families.

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

And Jesus says our love for our family must be considered as hate, in comparison to our love for him.

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Elder M Russell Ballard
Be anxiously engaged.

Uses the example of worker bees making honey, throughout his talk to advocate working to make a difference in the world, maybe through one small act of kindness. Collectively working together to make the world a better place. Again this is admirable, we should seek to make a difference in the world in whatever small ways we can.

Elder Larry Echo Hawk, ( of the Seventy )
”Come unto me, oh ye house of Israel”

During his talk, Elder Echo Hawk referenced the introduction and title page of the book of Mormon.

This is from his talk…
‘On the title page I read that it is “written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile.” In the introduction to the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, it says that the Lamanites “are among the ancestors of the American Indians’.
I notice Elder Echo hawk, is using a recent copy of the Book of Mormon. From the 2006 edition onwards, the title page to the Book of Mormon was changed, having previously stated, “… all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.” It now says that the Lamanites were “among the ancestors”. This change is massive, and there are no footnotes or any indication that there was a change made. This change was done quietly, and your average member of the LDS Church will probably not know about it. For over 150 years the LDS Church maintained that Native Americans are all descendants of the Lamanites.

DNA has revealed a total lack of any Semite (Israelite) genetic markers in the Indians in the Americas.

Genetics and the Book of Mormon
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the late 1990s and the pioneering work of Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza and others, scientists have developed techniques that attempt to use genetic markers to indicate the ethnic background and history of individual people. The data developed by these mainstream scientists tell us that the Native Americans have very distinctive DNA markers, and that some of them are most similar, among old world populations, to the DNA of people anciently associated with the Altay Mountains area of central Asia. This conclusion from a genetic perspective confirms a large amount of archaeological, anthropological, and linguistic evidence that Native American peoples’ ancestors migrated from Asia at the latest 16,500–13,000 years ago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

Elder Echo Hawke as a person or American ancestry himself, says that he felt as though he was reading about his ancestors as he read the Book of Mormon. He reads part of the BOM account of the Lamanites, a people who the Book of Mormon teaches, migrated from Jerusalem to the American continents at around 600BC.

He closes by exhorting that people read the BOM particularly the descendents of the Lamanites ‘wherever you May be.’

Elder Robert C Gay,( of the seventy )
What shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Beginning with an example from childhood, where by lying about his age, Elder Gay sought after the treasures of this world rather than those of heaven. By this he received his life lesson. He goes on to discuss self justification of sins.

‘With self-justification of petty sins, Satan triumphs. For a bottle of milk, a misspelled name, a mess of pottage, birthrights and inheritances have been traded.’

As a Christian, I agree. If I try to justify to myself something which my conscience tells me I should not do, or that Gods word tells me I should not do, then this is sin. Self justification, telling yourself ‘it’s ok,’ is a slippery slope.

But the LDS Message is not as Christian, (by this I mean biblical) as it might seem.

He states…
‘The Lord loves our righteousness but asks of us continued repentance and submission.’

To understand what is meant by this you have to understand LDS terminology is different to that of Biblical Christianity.

This is from the Book of Mormon…(Alma 22)

“What shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit[?] … I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.”
‘Do you remember the response the Lord gave the king through His servant Aaron? “If thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest.”11

If you’re a Christian reading this you may be thinking, ‘that sounds ok, what’s wrong with repenting of all your sins?’

It goes on…

When the king understood the sacrifice required, he humbled and prostrated himself and then prayed, “O God, … I will give away all my sins to know thee.”12

When the King understood what was being asked of him… It’s not the sinners prayer, that is being spoken of here, the king is not being asked simply to confess, own up to all of his sins but to stop sinning! He then says…

I will give away all my sins to know thee.”12

Ok the idea of giving away all of your sins, to stop sinning is a honourable intention. Surely every Christian when they first become a believer has the intention to no longer sin?

Yes , but the difference is it is not a requirement. Our sins are forgiven. The price has been paid by our saviour. We do not maintain our own salvation by our works of righteousness; rather we work because we are saved.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The following is a quote from a well known LDS Book, Titled, Miracle of Forgiveness.
It was written in 1969 by Spencer W. Kimball, he was one of the 12 Apostles at the time of writing and later went on to be president or prophet of the Church…

p324-325
“Your Heavenly Father has promised forgiveness upon total repentance and meeting all the requirements, but that forgiveness is not granted merely for the asking. There must be works-many works-and an all-lout, total surrender, with a great humility and ‘a broken heart and a contrite spirit. It depends upon you weather or not you are forgiven, and when. It could be weeks, it could be years, it could be centuries before that happy day when you have the positive assurance that the Lord has forgiven you. That depends on your humility, your sincerity, your work, or they your attitude.”

And as if that wasn’t bad enough…

P169-170
Old sins return, says the Lord in his modern revelations many people either do not know this or they conveniently forget it. “Go your way and sin no more,” the Lord warned. And again, “… Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.” ( D&C 82:7)

This is the impossible Gospel of Mormonism. Far removed from the easy yoke which Jesus spoke of.

Matthew 11:28-30 (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

And if there is any question in your minds as to weather this is what Elder Gay meant…

“This is the exchange the Savior is asking of us: we are to give up all our sins, big or small, for the Father’s reward of eternal life. We are to forget self-justifying stories, excuses, rationalizations, defence mechanisms, procrastinations, appearances, personal pride, judgemental thoughts, and doing things our way. We are to separate ourselves from all worldliness and take upon us the image of God in our countenances.”

Elder Niel L Anderson
Of the Quorum of the 12 apostles

Writes of the trials that many face in life. He encourages those who seek to follow God, particularly in difficult circumstances, like losing a child, or those that are still seeking a partner and are struggling with temptation. He advises to seek God, to pray, to read the scriptures. To continue attending Church.

He moves on to discuss, ‘Those who want to discredit the Church and destroy faith.’ By way of the Internet.

If you’re a Mormon and you’ve been following our blog posts for a while, or even if your new to us. I hope that you have picked up on the heart behind this ministry. We are not Unbelievers, trying to lead you out of faith into unbelief. We are Christian, believing that you have been sold a lie. That the LDS does not have the ‘restored gospel.’ The original is still very much here, and the gates of Hell did not prevail against it. We operate this ministry in Love. Our heart is to see you receive the truth and to not perish without it.

He states…
“Some of the information about the Church, no matter how convincing, is just not true. In 1985, I remember a colleague walking into my business office in Florida. He had a Time magazine article entitled “Challenging Mormonism’s Roots.” It spoke of a recently discovered letter, supposedly written by Martin Harris, that conflicted with Joseph Smith’s account of finding the Book of Mormon plates.”

I know which letter he is speaking of, it is called the salamander letter.

This is from Wikipedia…

The Salamander Letter was a document created by Mark Hofmann in the early 1980s.
The letter was one of hundreds of documents concerning the history of Latter Day Saint movement that surfaced in the early 1980s. The Salamander Letter presented a view of Latter Day Saint founder Joseph Smith’s life that stood sharply at odds with the commonly accepted version of the early progression of the church Smith established.
Accepted by some document experts and collectors, and rejected by others,[1] the Salamander Letter generated much discussion and debate inside and outside the Latter Day Saint movement. Kenneth W. Rendell lent credence to it by stating that the ink, paper and postmark were all consistent with the period; he concluded, “[T]here is no indication that the document is a forgery.”[2] The document was later demonstrated to be a forgery created by Hoffman, who had been responsible for the “discovery” of many other notable documents. Rendell then recast his conclusion, stating that while there was “the absence of any indication of forgery in the letter itself, there was also no evidence that it was genuine.”[3]

Mark Hoffman tried to sell this letter to several people, including well know critics of Mormonism, Sandra Tanner and her Husband Jerald. The Tanners questioned the letters authenticity and did not buy it from him.

Although I’m sure there will be critics of Mormonism who might spread false information, maybe they’ve been hurt by the church, maybe like Hoffman their trying to make money some how. But I hope not to offend when I say, that we do not need to falsify information from the History of the LDS Church to make it questionable. There is more than enough there already. From Changes to the book of Mormon, a book which should be flawless if it’s supposed origins are correct. To a complete lack of evidence for the people and the belongings of the people, told to have travelled to America around 600BC.