Well, it’s that time of the year again, where I take that 17 (or more) hours journey to Utah. This time thankfully I am not travelling alone. UPFC volunteer and ex-Jehovah’s Witness Tony Brown, and also Lee Burrows a local friend from Middlesbrough are coming along. We have quite a bit planned.
While we are here we are going to be doing outreach at Temple Square.
Also we will be at the Manti Miracle Pageant, doing outreach with a hundred or so Christians there.
We hope to have a great time, have some great loving relationships with LDS people, and further strengthen our links and relationships with Christians over in Utah. We will be spending time in various locations, such as Salt Lake City, Ogden, Ephraim, Manti and Provo.
Provo was found in a study by J.D Payne to be the least evangelised city in the entire USA. It is home to Brigham Young University, and has a massive need for Christian outreach. The reality is on a 12 day trip we likely won’t see that change, but its a great opportunity to be challenged and motivated for what this ministry is doing in the UK, as well as hopefully seeing God work in peoples lives in Utah.
We are mega excited about this, and I hope you will pray for us, keep an eye on this site for updates, and offer some comments of support (or by all means challenge if you disagree with us doing this) here and there.
Here is a conversation I had on the streets of Manti a couple of years ago, to give you an idea of what we will be doing.
“Each and every one of you who place their trust in Christ is a Priest…”
An ongoing series of articles on some common and recurring weak arguments that Christians make against Mormonism.
by Fred W. Anson The Argument:
“There is no priesthood anymore.”
Why It’s Weak:
This argument is weak because it’s untrue. The Bible tells us that anyone who places their trust in Christ and receives His free gift of eternal life by faith through grace is a member of the Royal Priesthood.
1) What’s in a word?
Let’s start at the beginning: What exactly is meant by the biblical word, “priesthood?” Bible commentator, Wayne Jackson explains:
A priest, in effect, is a mediator who stands between God and man. He offers sacrifice to God on behalf of man and administers other worship obligations that people feel unworthy to offer personally. The nearest thing to a definition found in the Scriptures is probably Hebrews 5:1.
“For every high priest, being taken from among men, is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.”[1]
And William Smith explains how and why a priesthood is required:
The idea of a priesthood connects itself in all its forms, pure or corrupted, with the consciousness, more or less distinct of sin. Men feel that they have broken a law . The power above them is holier than they are, and they dare not approach it. They crave for the intervention of some one of whom they can think as likely to be more acceptable than themselves. He must offer up their prayers, thanksgivings, sacrifices. He becomes their representative in “things pertaining unto God.” He may become also (though this does not always follow) the representative of God to man.[2]
In a sense, after the fall, without a priest to mediate between God and man and offer sacrifices there was no forgiveness of sins and thus no reconciliation with God. Thus immediately after the fall of man we see mankind offering sacrifices to God (see Genesis 4:2-6) and assuming a priestly role. Matthew George Easton offers this quick summation and overview of the priesthood in his well known Bible dictionary:
Paul Gustave Dore’, “Cain and Abel Offering Their Sacrifices” (19th Century) (click to zoom)
At first every man was his own priest, and presented his own sacrifices before God. Afterwards that office devolved on the head of the family, as in the cases of Noah (Gen. 8:20), Abraham (12:7; 13:4), Isaac (26:25), Jacob (31:54), and Job (Job 1:5).
The name first occurs as applied to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:18). Under the Levitical arrangements the office of the priesthood was limited to the tribe of Levi, and to only one family of that tribe, the family of Aaron. Certain laws respecting the qualifications of priests are given in Lev. 21:16-23. There are ordinances also regarding the priests’ dress (Ex. 28:40-43) and the manner of their consecration to the office (29:1-37).
Their duties were manifold (Ex. 27:20, 21; 29:38-44; Lev. 6:12; 10:11; 24:8; Num. 10:1-10; Deut. 17:8-13; 33:10; Mal. 2:7). They represented the people before God, and offered the various sacrifices prescribed in the law.
…
The whole priestly system of the Jews was typical. It was a shadow of which the body is Christ. The priests all prefigured the great Priest who offered “one sacrifice for sins” “once for all” (Heb. 10:10, 12). There is now no human priesthood. (See Epistle to the Hebrews throughout.)[3]
2) Sorry Mr. Easton, but no!
On that last point Mr. Easton, who was most likely over reacting to Catholic priesthood claims, is both correct and incorrect: The Bible is clear that there is a priesthood however, it’s neither the Melchizedek or the Aaronic priesthood. After all, the Levitical system of sacerdotalism that formed the basis for the Aaronic priesthood was fulfilled by Christ’s atonement, and the Melchizedek priesthood only contains one member, Jesus Christ.[4] Never the less, there are priests in what the Apostle Peter refers to as the “Royal Priesthood” in 1 Peter 2:9 (NKJV):
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; (bolding added)
And it is this priesthood of kings that the Apostle John refers to in Revelation 1:5-6 and 5:10 (NKJV):
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. (bolding added)
You [the Lamb of God] were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth. (bolding added)
Thus Martin Luther very correctly asserted that our calling as royal priests is divine and not a matter of human ordination:
As for the unction by a pope or a bishop, tonsure, ordination, consecration, clothes differing from those of laymen–all this may make a hypocrite or an anointed puppet, but never a Christian, or a spiritual man. Thus we are all consecrated as priests by baptism, as St. Peter says: “Ye are a royal priesthood, a holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9); and in the book of Revelation: “and hast made us unto our God, kings and priests.” (Rev. 5:10) (bolding added)[5]
According to Luther and the Bible, these Christians are all priests.
How if they were compelled to admit that we all, so many as have been baptized, are equally priests? We are so in fact, and it is only a ministry which has been entrusted to them, and that with our consent. They would then know that they have no right to exercise command over us, except so far as we voluntarily allow of it. Thus it is said: “Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.” (1 Pet. 2:9.) Thus all we who are Christians are priests; (bolding added)[6]
Thus as Presbyterian Pastor Brett Swanson notes well of the little girl admiring the statues of Martin Luther in this article’s main photograph:
Each and every one of you who place their trust in Christ is a Priest, a Minister. When that little girl from our photo gets a little older and begins to understand God’s transformative love and the grace that sustains her, she too will be called into the Priesthood of All Believers, her baptism her ordination, and her first church will be the world around her, depending on her to spread the hope that comes in Christ’s love to the next generation. That is what Priests do. They live faithfully today, and invest in what God is doing for tomorrow.[7]
So is there a priesthood today? The biblical answer is an emphatic, “Yes!” However, it is no longer physical, it’s spiritual, and it’s no long sacerdotal – that is, except for the sacrifice of praise and offering of thanksgiving (see Hebrews 13:15) that we bring. As British Pastor David H.J. Gay notes well:
It is in the new covenant that God through Christ has formed his people into a priesthood for the very purpose of satisfying his demand and desire for true spiritual worship from true spiritual worshippers (John 4: 23-24). In Christ, he has established a body of priests who truly worship him in spirit, and offer true spiritual sacrifices… It is we – believers under the new covenant – it is we who are the true people of God, the true Israel, who truly and spiritually worship God! In short, the newest believer approaches God with greater glory than Aaron himself ever did.[8]
But perhaps, in the end, no one summed up the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers better, succintly, and beautifully than John Newton in his well known hymn:
Fra Angelico, “The Forerunners of Christ with Saints and Martyrs” (circa 1423-24)
Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer’s blood!
Jesus, whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
’Tis his love his people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, his solemn praises
Each for a thank-offering brings. — John Newton, “Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken”
The Stronger Arguments:
If this article has seemed like a theology lesson to you so far, you would be right. I believe that this weak argument comes out of two things: First, a lack of a fully formed theology of the priesthood of all believers,[9] and; Second, an over reaction to Latter-day Saint priesthood dogma.
First Suggested Strong Argument: This ain’t about authority!
At core of Latter-day Saint priesthood doctrine is the issue of authority – as in Mormon priesthood holders have it and no one else does. On one official church website they explicitly state:
Artist’s depiction of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery receiving the Aaronic Priesthood.
The priesthood is the authority to act in God’s name. The same priesthood authority that existed in the original Church established by Jesus Christ exists in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today. The Church is directed and led through this authority.
All male members of the Church who are prepared receive the priesthood in order to help lead the Church and serve Heavenly Father’s children. A man with the priesthood might serve in some of the following ways:
Leading congregations of the Church
Performing the ordinances of the Church, such as baptism
Blessing those who are sick
God expects those who hold this sacred priesthood authority to follow the example of Jesus Christ and serve with love, gentleness, and kindness.[10]
But such an assertion is only true if that authority comes directly from God himself. On this matter, Wayne Jackson comes right to the point:
The Mormon priesthood dogma has no authority higher than that of Joseph Smith, Jr., who claims to have “restored” the ancient order of priests on May 15, 1829. The error in this is all too obvious to anyone with a more-than-minimum acquaintance with the New Testament.
First of all, the Melchizedek priesthood was to belong to Christ, and to none other, until the end of time. The writer of Hebrews says concerning Jesus that: “. . . he, because he abides for ever, has his priesthood unchangable” (7:24). The key word is “unchangable” (aparabatos), which suggests that the Lord’s priesthood is imperishable. Some suggest that the meaning of the Greek term is simply “permanent, unchangable” (F.W. Danker, et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Chicago: University of Chicago, 2000, p. 97), which, of itself, would eliminate the Mormon idea. But even more to the point is the proposed meaning “non-transferable” (C. Spiqu, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament, Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1994, 1.143-44). That would specifically deny that it could pass to other persons.
Second, the Aaronic priesthood cannot be operative today because it was an integral part of the law of Moses, which law was abolished by Christ (Eph. 2:15), being, in a manner of speaking, nailed to his cross (Col. 2:14). Moreover, the verb rendered “hath taken away” in this latter passage is a perfect tense form, which argues for the permanent abolition of that law. There is no biblical indication that the law was to be, or ever will be, restored. Too, one could not restore the Aaronic priesthood without “of necessity” resurrecting the entire Mosaic law (Heb. 7:12).[11]
In other words there is no authority backing LdS Priesthood claims – biblically, they’re just wrong. Therefore, the entire system rests on Joseph Smith’s say-so that he received a divine mandate that somehow over rode biblical authority when he and Oliver Cowdery received first the Aaronic Priesthood from John the Baptist, and then the Melchizedek Priesthood from Peter, James, and John. And Smith’s claims in this regard are problematic.
Second Suggested Strong Argument: Now Mr. Smith about that Priesthood thing…
According to the canonized history of Mormonism Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery received the Aaronic Priesthood on May 15, 1829 and the Melchizedek Priesthood shortly thereafter on some unknown date:
Contemporary painting of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood
The Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery received the Aaronic Priesthood, with its authority to baptize, on 15 May 1829. The Melchizedek Priesthood was restored next, bringing to earth all the power and authority necessary to organize and direct the Church of Jesus Christ and to perform additional saving priesthood ordinances. While the Prophet and his associate, Oliver, did not record the date that they received the Melchizedek Priesthood, historical records and the testimony of witnesses indicate that it occurred between the day after the Aaronic Priesthood restoration and 28 May 1829. Both the scriptures and the testimony of contemporaries attest that the brethren on whom the Lord had bestowed the keys of the Melchizedek Priesthood—the Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery—acted in the authority of those keys as they organized the Church on 6 April 1830.[12]
However, the historical record discredits these claims as this MormonThink.com summary explains:
Researchers who have closely examined the D&C and primary source accounts found that the official narrative of priesthood restoration contains numerous gaps, inconsistencies, and contradictions. Scholars also raise important questions that expose potential weaknesses in Smith and Cowdery’s story of their miraculous ordinations. For example, if Joseph and Oliver had experienced events as remarkable and life-altering as divine visitations by John the Baptist and three of Christ’s apostles, why would they not tell others? These miraculous ordinations were not publicly revealed or documented until five years after they supposedly occurred. Moreover, if the restoration of the priesthood is a fundamental tenet of the LDS Church, why was this revelation excluded from the Book of Commandments when it was originally published in 1833, only revealed in the revised and re-named Doctrine and Covenants in 1835?[13]
The specific problems in the story of the Restoration of the Priesthood:
Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery failed to testify to the members nor record anything about the appearances of “John the Baptist” and “Peter, James, and John” in any publications prior to 1834 (five years after the events purportedly took place)—nor did they teach that men ordained to offices in the church were receiving “priesthood authority”.
Nobody in or out of the church knows the exact date of the restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood, and Oliver Cowdery was inconsistent in describing which heavenly being(s) had come to confer that authority.
Joseph Smith and other early members stated that the first conferral of the Melchizedek priesthood happened in June 1831 in Ohio at a conference of Elders, and that Joseph himself was ordained to the high priesthood by church elder Lyman Wight at that time.
Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery changed the wording of earlier revelations when they compiled the 1835 D&C [Doctrine & Covenants], adding verses about the appearances of John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John AS IF those appearances were mentioned in the earlier revelations, which they weren’t. The Book of Commandments, which later became the D&C says nothing about these appearances.[14]
Simply put, if Joseph Smith’s Priesthood Restoration didn’t occur as he claimed, then the Mormon Priesthood is a hollow shell of nothing – it’s a sham and a fraud.
Third Suggested Strong Argument: In Judeo-Christianity the authority to act in God’s name has never been derived from the priesthood – any priesthood.Step back to the start of this article and reread the priesthood definitions. In the Bible the Priesthood is an office, a function, and a duty. And any authority that came with the office was limited strictly to performing those very specific functions and duties. Throughout the biblical narrative “the authority to act in God’s name” came directly from God and His call on your life irrespective of your office, status or position in life. Anyone who was called was authorized – it was that simple.
Artist’s speculative depiction of Jesus Christ acting as High Priest in heaven
Consider, for example, the man Jesus Christ. It was impossible for Him to have “Priesthood Authority” because he wasn’t a priest. Christ was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi and, therefore, immediately disqualified from the Aaronic priesthood. Further, the book of Hebrews is clear that the resurrected Christ became our High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek through His atonement:
Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. For He testifies:
“You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.” … Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. — Hebrew 7:11-17; 9:11-15 (NKJV)
So according to Latter-day Saint priesthood doctrine Jesus Christ was acting without authority during His ministry and incarnation since He wasn’t a priesthood holder. Further, we could also talk about Paul who was from tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21, Romans 11:1, Philippians 3:5) and the 12 disciples (with the possible exception of Matthew who may have been a Levite) and their lack of priesthood authority. Suffice to say, according to Latter-day Saint priesthood dogma none of them had the the authority to act in God’s name, to lead congregations, to perform ordinances such as baptism, to bless those who are sick, etc., etc., etc. Yet in stark contrast to that dogma, the Bible is filled from cover-to-cover with men and women who had the required authority to act in God’s name simply by virtue of the fact that God had called them. For example consider, the prophet Isaiah who, like Christ, was from the tribe of Judah:
Michelangelo’s “Isaiah” (from the Sistine Chapel Ceiling)
I [Isaiah] heard the voice of the Lord, saying:
“Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”
And He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
“Make the heart of this people dull, And their ears heavy, And shut their eyes; Lest they see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And return and be healed.” — Isaiah 6:8-10 (NKJV)
Simply put our authority to act in God’s name comes from His call on our lives as the chosen elect of God. Therefore, the so-called “priesthood authority” that He gives came upon us when each and every one of us when we placed our trust in Christ and received His free gift of eternal life by faith through grace. We are the royal and legitimate priests of God through Christ, His atoning work, His call on our lives and nothing else.
Summary and Conclusion:
Sandra Tanner summed up the whole problem of the LdS priesthood claims nicely when she wrote:
LDS teach that Joseph Smith had to have the priesthood before he could establish the Church. But the Bible says nothing about apostles, bishops, deacons, or any other New Testament office holding either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood. Why did Joseph Smith need it if Mormonism is a restoration of the New Testament church? The Bible does not teach that the church or priesthood will be lost or restored.[15]
And Hal Hougey very correctly points us to the true biblical model observing:
In 2 Kings 22 we find Israel in apostasy. One day an apostate priest found the Law of the Lord where it had been lost and forgotten in the temple. It was read to the people and obeyed. Thus, a restoration was brought about. It did not require a visitation by angels to restore authority.
A restoration can be brought about today in the same way by reading and obeying the teachings of Christ and his apostles as taught in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God; when it teaches something we have authority from God to obey it without having to receive authority from angels or men. If you learn you should be honest, do you have to go to some church official for the authority to be honest? Certainly not. Likewise, when the Lord in His word teaches us to be baptized and to baptize others, we have the authority to do so, from the word itself.[16]
And the folks at the Got Questions? website summarize our priesthood as Christians nicely when they say:
In summary, believers are called “kings and priests” and a “royal priesthood” as a reflection of their privileged status as heirs to the kingdom of the Almighty God and of the Lamb. Because of this privileged closeness with God, no other earthly mediator is necessary. Second, believers are called priests because salvation is not merely “fire insurance,” escape from hell. Rather, believers are called by God to serve Him by offering up spiritual sacrifices, i.e., being a people zealous for good works. As priests of the living God, we are all to give praise to the One who has given us the great gift of His Son’s sacrifice on our behalf, and in response, to share this wonderful grace with others.[17]
So the next time a Mormon asks you where you get your authority simply say, “Through my calling into the Royal Priesthood through the atonement of Jesus Christ by faith through grace and nothing more – the Bible tells me so!”
[4] This statement follows the teaching of John Calvin and others that the Melchizedek figure in Genesis 14:18-20 is a Christophany (an Old Testament physical manifestation of Christ). This follows logically when the text interpreted in light of Hebrews 7:1-3 which says:
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him,to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,”without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. (NKJV)
Thus since only one human meets (or has ever met) that criteria it’s fair to conclude that the Genesis 14 Melchizedek is in fact Jesus Christ. This is just one of several valid interpretations. However, it’s clear that at the very least Melchizedek is a type of Christ. As the GotQuestions.org website summarizes well:
Are Melchizedek and Jesus the same person? A case can be made either way. At the very least, Melchizedek is a type of Christ, prefiguring the Lord’s ministry. But it is also possible that Abraham, after his weary battle, met and gave honor to the Lord Jesus Himself.
(Uncredited, “Who was Melchizedek?” GotQuestions.org website)
[9] A condition that I would be a fool to think I could remedy with this short article. Please see the suggested reading section at the end if you’re interested in developing a more fully formed theology of the priesthood of all believers.
SUGGESTED RESOURCES: I was surprised at the dearth of resources regarding the biblical doctrine of the Priesthood of All Believers when I started to research this article. It’s clearly a subject that the modern Christian Church is neglecting. So to save the reader some time and effort, and to preserve the good resources that I found, I offer this bibliography.
Suggested resources on the Priesthood of All Believers: David H.J.Gay, “The Priesthood of All Believers: Slogan or Substance?” This is the most exhaustive treatise on the subject that I found. The author is as ponderous and verbose as a 19th Century preacher but leaves no doubt that his arguments are substantive and fully grounded in scripture. [click here for the Kindle Edition][click here for the FREE audio Edition]
Wikipedia, “Universal Priesthood” This is the one you’ll want if you want the short, cryptic treatment of the subject. A good historical overview but that’s about all.
Wayne Jackson, “Exploring the Concept of Priesthood” This is the best short summary of the subject that I’ve found. It’s also useful in that it addresses the issue of how Catholics and Latter-day Saints have corrupted the biblical priesthood system.
Got Questions? website, “Is the priesthood of all believers biblical?” Another good, short primer that limits itself to biblical text. If you’re looking for the short, concise biblical case for the Priesthood of all believers this is the article you’re looking for.
Suggested resources on the LdS Priesthood: While there’s a dearth of good resources on Priesthood on the Christian side, there’s a glut on the Mormon side. Here’s are some of the better resources among many that I found in preparing this article that didn’t make it into the main article:
Finally we reach the Relief Society, This years Relief Society talks focus on the issue of Covenant keeping. The first talk was by Linda K Burton, Relief Society General President, and was entitled The Power Joy and Love of covenant Keeping. Linda begins with the story of a Woman preparing for Baptism she commends this women for her desire to be made clean, giving up her old life in order to make covenants with God.
Linda says
“She was so anxious to give away all of her sins that she might be washed clean and feel the redeeming love of the Savior. I was inspired that morning by her desire to become both physically and spiritually clean.”
Now in Mainstream Christianity it is taught that once a person has given themselves to Christ, they are washed clean entirely, permanently. I pity this lady that Linda speaks of, as in LDS theology, the cleansing she so desperately sought after would be a temporary thing, she would be clean only for a moment, until the next unholy thought or word then she would again be stained by sin. Of course this can then be rectified by the taking of the Sacrament.
Speaking of the Sacrament Linda then goes on to say…
“Why does the Savior put so much importance upon the sacrament, dear sisters? What importance does this weekly renewal of our baptismal covenants play in our lives? Do we recognize the ability of the Savior to completely cleanse us every week as we worthily and thoughtfully partake of the sacrament?”
This is an interesting teaching of the LDS Church. When Jesus died on the cross what did he really do?
Did he die to pay the price for all of our sins or just some of them? And if you say just some of them, was his sacrifice therefore not sufficient?
When we are told in the Bible that Jesus died for our sins, it wasn’t just talking about those we have already committed. God knows that we sin, we can’t help ourselves. Seriously how long do you think you can go without sinning, an hour? really? What about those sinful thoughts! A day? I don’t believe you! We all sin, the Bible tells us that we have a sin nature, we are corrupt, the bible tells us that we are ( or were if you are saved ) in sinful flesh, ( or a sinful nature,)
Ephesians 2:3 (NASB)
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [b]mind, and wereby naturechildren of wrath, even as the rest.
Those who have not been freed by Christ are slaves to corruption.
” Peter 2:19
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
We all sin, and Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to cover all of our sin…..
Colossians 2:13-14
13 When you were dead [a]in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,14 having canceled outthe certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Does this sound like something that needs to be renewed once a week? This verse talks about having been taken from death to life. You can’t then go back into death again.
It says He has Cancelled the Certificate of Debt! God knows every sin you will ever commit, and if He says your debt against Him is cancelled, He is including the sins you do not yet know about, because He does know about them.
He has taken this Certificate of Debt against you ( if you are His ) and nailed it to the cross! Where were your sins dealt with? On the cross 2000 years before you committed them.
So what is the Sacrament?
A sacrament is a visible manifestation of the word. The bread and wine in the Lord’s Supper are considered sacraments in that they are visible manifestations of the covenant promise of our Lord: “In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you,'” (Luke 22:20).
It’s not the sacrament that cleanses you but the blood the saviour spilled for you 2000 years ago, there he nailed your sins to the cross. As I said this talk is about covenant keeping, Linda goes on to share a story of a Mother with young children who finds it hard to focus on a Sunday. With this I can relate, as a Mother of Two young Children, and the idea of preparing yourselves as the woman in the story does, for the taking of the sacrament, is definitely good advice, any Christian would agree as it says in Corinthians,
1 Corinthians 11:28
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
Linda goes on to discuss trial and tribulation, and how God can use the tribulation in our lives to bring about good. She illustrates with a story of a historic Tabinacle in ProvoUtah, which was destroyed by fire, the shell of this building was later used in creating an LDSTemple. A building of much greater standing. To the Women experiencing Trial in their lives she says this…
“Sisters, I testify that the Lord has a plan for each of our lives. Nothing that happens is a shock or a surprise to Him. He is all-knowing and all-loving. He is eager to help us, to comfort us, and to ease our pain as we rely on the power of the Atonement and honor our covenants. The trials and tribulation that we experience may be the very things that guide us to come unto Him and cling to our covenants so that we might return to His presence and receive all that the Father hath”.
As a Christian I agree that the Lord can and does use tribulation and hardship in our lives and turns it around for good, I agree that these times of trial should lead us into His loving arms. But the only covenant I cling to is the one that Jesus made, in his blood to bring about my salvation.
Now a Christian reading this post might be unaware of the covenants within Mormonism. When someone is Baptized into the LDSChurch they are entering into a covenant relationship but unlike the covenant relationship Christians enter as they are converted, The Mormon will be expected to hold to promises that he/She has made.
1. Come into the fold of God (become a member of the Church
of Jesus Christ).
2. Be called his son or daughter (take upon me the name of Christ).
3. Bear others’ burdens, that they may be light; mourn with those that
mourn; and comfort those in need of comfort (help others).
4. Stand as a witness of God at all times and in all things and in
all places (testify of Christ and set a good example at all times).
5. Serve God and keep his commandments.
When I Keep My Baptismal Covenants the Lord Covenants to:
1. Forgive my sins.
2. Pour his Spirit more abundantly upon me (give me the companionship
of the Holy Ghost).
3. Redeem me that I might be numbered with those of the first resurrection
and have eternal life (permit me to enter the celestial kingdom to live
with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ).
When it says here “keep his commandments that means a number of things, including obeying the word of wisdom, (Not drinking tea/ coffee/alcohol ) and tithing, going to the temple, daily family prayers, family home evening, fulfilling your calling and home teaching. All of these may not be commandments but their certainly expectations within the Church.
There are also further covenants made in the temple. As all three of this years Relief society speakers are speaking on this issue of Covenant keeping. I want to just take a look at this issue of covenants from a Biblical perspective.
What does the Bible say about making covenants?
A covenant is a contract or agreement between two or more parties. The Bible is a covenant document. The Old and New Testaments are really Old and New Covenants. The word “testament” is Latin for Covenant.
A Covenant requires blood…
Hebrews 9:16-22 For where a [q]covenant is, there must of necessity [r]be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a [s]covenant is valid only when [t]men are dead, [u]for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God commanded you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the [v]tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood. 22 And according to the [w]Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
There are many references to a New Covenant in the New Testament, but ( correct me if i’m wrong) there is no mention of New testament Christians making ongoing Covenants or vow’s to God. in fact in James 5:12 we are specifically told not to. 12 But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.
Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the newcovenant in My blood.
2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a newcovenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The New Covenant we are under is clearly different from the Old Covenant of keeping Laws and ordinances
Hebrews 9:14-16 how much more willthe blood of Christ, who through[a]the eternal Spiritoffered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse[b]your conscience fromdead works to servethe living God?15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
We find no mention of Covenants that we are to keep in the New Testament, Why is this?
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Ezekiel 11:18-20 When they come there, they will remove all its detestable things and all its abominations from it. 19 And I willgive them one heart, and put a new spirit within[a]them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.
Hebrews 8:10-12 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, says the Lord: [g]I will put My laws into their minds, And I will write them on their hearts.
This is our Covenant with God, When someone becomes a Christian, the bible says that God gives us a new heart, He writes His laws on our minds and hearts. We’re not required to make further Covenants with God, He has given us His Covenant Promises And he has given us His word, He has also given us The Holy spirit, His Statutes and ordinances are written on our hearts. not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.(2 Corinthians 3:6)
Chapter 11, ‘I Seek Not Mine Own Will but the Will of the Father’, may seem a little bit ‘jarring’ in its location within the book coming as it is does after the important chapter of coming to the temples. The issues that are raised in the chapter are important to discuss however. It is one of those chapters that, unlike the previous chapter, involve detailed analysis of Lorenzo Snow’s theology to discern the LDS theology from the Christian theology. In our journey examining Snow’s thoughts on Jesus’ famous statement that is used as the title for his chapter, we shall focus on two distinctive Mormon ideas in the text. Firstly, we shall investigate the idea that it is possible to take a path where there will be no failure and secondly we shall investigate the difference between successful and faithful with God.
The first area we shall look at focuses on the very first section of Snow’s teaching in this chapter. The particular quotation that is important is ‘there is a course for every person to pursue in which there will be no failure’. This quotation needs to be understood in light of the reference from Doctrine and Covenants that comes shortly after the quotation:
‘If your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you, and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things. Therefore sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God (D&C 88:67-68).
We must begin with the areas where Mormonism and Christianity agree. It would be unwise and improper to suggest that saying that ‘seeming failures’ cannot be successes in actuality in God. When we consider Peter, we can see that his massive failures in abandoning Jesus as well as his failure to understand Jesus’ messages were transformed by God into great wisdom and leadership for His purposes. Our greatest failures can be turned into great Godly successes. Where Snow begins to go into areas where Christianity must disagree is the reasoning behind why the LDS church of the 1890’s has not fallen into failure. Snow argues the church has avoided failure as they have ‘fixed upon the true principles of life, and have conformed to their duty’. The church has the Spirit ‘and have followed it. Hence there has been no failure’. This along with the quotation we have seen before, signals a progression from failure being redeemed by God to humanity being able to avoid failure by works, in affect humanity being free from sin through works and redeeming itself.
Now am I over exaggerating here? Am I reading far too much into what Snow is saying? I do not believe that I am. When Snow states that the church has avoided failure has come from ‘conforming to duty’, he states that the avoidance of failure in the sight of the Lord has come from the church’s action rather than the mercy and grace of Christ. This theology has been cut from the same cloth as the theology in chapter five where men can become gods by their works. Snow does say in this section that the ‘people generally have had the Spirit of the Lord, and have followed it’. That seems biblically orthodox doesn’t it? Well, it would again seem a bit bizarre to say that Peter hadn’t failed in his leadership of the church when he was caught in hypocrisy as he ate with Gentiles when James wasn’t around but refused in James’ presence. It would also be bizarre an absurd to say that Peter did not have the Spirit or that the Spirit abandoned him at that time. Peter’s failure in this regard came about by the sin that is in us all. Our lives are a constant wrestle with obeying the Spirit and giving into our sinful urges. There will always be sinful failure on an individual level and on the corporate level as we are all sinful until our purification in our resurrection at death. As such to argue that we can avoid failure in this life by works is not just theologically wrong, but folly.
Our next point of exploration is the difference between success and faithfulness when it comes to God. The sentence that follows the quotation from Doctrine and Covenants we have previously discussed is as follows ‘That is the key by which a person can always be successful’. The quotations that follow, Philippians 3:14 and Doctrine and Covenants 84:38, make references to prizes, which are the reward for success. I do believe however that Snow has misappropriated the quotation from Philippians. The prize he is talking about is the resurrection from the dead that comes from a life with Jesus.
When we consider Philippians 3:13, Paul exhorts us to repent and leave our sins in the past and keep going through the trials, the pain and our own sinfulness towards our true prize, relationship with Christ in eternity. This sounds more like faithfulness rather than success. So what does the LDS church define ‘success’, the word Snow uses on page 150 as? The Bible Dictionary on the LDS website does not give us a definition under the term ‘success’ but this word is used in a couple of other definitions such as Maccabees and Jonah. In these definitions, the word ‘success’ is used in its classical sense, in that the aims that one set out with were achieved and that success was accredited to the person who ‘achieved’ the success.
So is Snow talking about ‘faithfulness’ or ‘success’? The answer to this can be found on page 150 when Snow begins to articulate on the will of God worked through our lives. In this section, Snow works through the lives of Moses and Jeremiah about how the will of the Father is worked through them despite their inadequacies.
Before this discussion however, Snow quotes John 5:19 and then proceeds to argue that if anything needs to be done that requires an ‘exertion’, we need to align our will with God’s. This is, of course, is perfectly Christian. Where it gets a little odd is when Snow argues that when we do this, it will always lead to success that we will eventually see, even if it takes a while for the success to flower. The truth of the matter is that when we align our wills, we do not do so for success. We do so because our creator God asks us to serve Him. He asks us to follow His will just like Jesus so that we can faithful to him.
The element of success that Snow introduces is a clear sign of the work-based salvation that is present in Snow’s thought as seen in chapter 5. It can be argued that the ‘success’ that Snow talks about is rooted within the trek west to the Salt Lake Basin and the overcoming of challenges to get to the Basin in the first place and the challenges that were involved in establishing settlements in the Basin. With this in mind, it could be argued that Snow is using his experiences in trying to articulate his thoughts and this could be conceivable if it weren’t for the other examples of work based salvation theology that have been present in the previous chapters. Snow’s theology, as shown by this example, is part of the foundation of Mormon soteriology (doctrine of salvation) which proclaims that humanity can work their way to the celestial kingdom to exaltation and godhood. Achieving this is what is considered success.
So in conclusion, what can we say about chapter eleven? We can say that, as with previous chapters, Snow is not unfamiliar with Christian theology and makes some points which are not out of step with Christian orthodoxy. What we can also see however is that Snow is still deeply rooted in the idea that humanity can be perfect and work their way to the celestial kingdom, in essence, you can work your way to heaven, something Christianity cannot accept.
So on we go to Chapter 5 of this years LDS teaching manual. With regards to Lorenzo Snow this is likely to be the most interesting chapter by far.
This chapter as the title says is talking about the grand hope of those that are truly faithful to God. In Mormon terms this means those that are the most faithful to the Mormon gospel, those that lives out all of the laws and ordnances of the gospel, as the chapter itself says:
…This is the high destiny of the sons of God, they who overcome, who are obedient to His commandments, who purify themselves even as He is pure. They are to become like Him; they will see Him as He is; they will behold His face and reign with Him in His glory, becoming like unto Him in every particular. (p.86)
So what is this great destiny? Its perfectly summed up in the first page of this chapter in the phrase that this Prophet is most well known for.
“As man now is, God once was: “As God now is, man may be.”
This is very refreshing for me to see this so clearly stated in an up to date Official Mormon Manual. Last year I had an Evangelical Christian call my points in my article in the Baptist times “outdated and ill researched” because I used this quote to show the Mormon view in my article. You can see the background to that here. This was largely because this Christian is in contact with a Mormon that, at that time at least did not know, nor believe that this teaching was a teaching of the Mormon Church. I have also had many other Mormons tell me that I am wrong in claiming that this is a teaching of the Mormon Church.
On the other hand there are many Mormons I have been in touch with over the years who very strongly believe that this quote represents their beliefs on this issue well, and therefore will be shaking their head at this Christian and Mormon up to this point.
In this post I am going to look at 3 things.
1, The Mormon Church does teach that God was once a man and that we can become a god ourselves, or “as God is” which is the words used today for the same thing.
2, This is an unbiblical teaching and does in fact point people towards a God that by virtue of being unbiblical therefore does not exist.
3, That Christians should raise this issue again and again with Mormons.
So firstly.
The Mormon Church does teach that God was once a man and that we can become a god ourselves, or “as God is” which is the words used today for the same thing.
We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
Joseph Smith the founding Prophet of the Mormon Church clearly taught this very far on in his ministry, in fact just months before his death that God was once a man like us, and dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.
This leads to different views within the Mormon Church. Some Mormons think God was a sinful finite man like us. This quote and the couplet very strongly lends itself to that. Some Mormons however emphasise the “Same as Jesus Christ did” part and therefore say that Heavenly Father was a Saviour on another world and went through His plan of Salvation like Jesus did, having never been a sinful man. Some others are simply unaware of this whole area of Mormon teaching.
Either way in Mormonism heavenly Father had to go through the same plan of eternal progression that we all have to go through and is the example of the great destiny that is available to all, if they are faithful like He was.
Brigham Young the 2nd Mormon Prophet said:
“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been once a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed” (Brigham Young, October 8, 1859, Journal of Discourses 7:333).
4th Prophet Wilford Woodruff said: “GOD IS INCREASING IN KNOWLEDGE. If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God Himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end” (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p. 3).
This quote tends not to be believed by Mormons today but this is a teaching of one of their Prophets and shows the idea of this Eternal progression.
Interestingly the 10th Mormon Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Where has the Lord ever revealed to us that he is lacking in knowledge? That he is still learning new truth; discovering new laws that are unknown to him? I think this kind of doctrine is very dangerous. I don’t know where the Lord has ever declared such a thing. It is not contained in any revelation that I have read”(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:8).
(As a side note this has happened on a few occasions in that Mormon Prophets say something, then later on their teachings are dismissed or even called heresy. For a more interesting case study on this look up the Adam God Doctrine.)
We also see this from Joseph Fielding Smith.
“The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?”(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:12).
He is likely reffering to this teaching from Joseph Smith
“If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also?” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373.)
According to the Mormon teaching of eternal progression there is a limitless regression of Gods in existence going endlessly back in time and will go endlessly forward, Our Heavenly Father had a Father and His Father had a Father and His Father had a Father and His Father had a Father and I could do that for a thousand pages and still be nowhere near the beginning. This in and of itself proves Mormonism wrong in their claim to believe in an infinite regression of infinite’s, this is logically impossible, for more on this please check out here.
2nd Mormon Prophet Brigham Young also said:
“How many Gods there are, I do not know, But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are passing through. That course has been from all eternity, and it is and will be so to all eternity” (Brigham Young, October 8,1859, Journal of Discourses 7:333).
You may wonder why I keep quoting their prophets as oppose to maybe the Mormon scriptures. In Mormonism the words of their prophets are as significant and authoritative as their scriptures. They speak with the same authority as Isaiah, Jeremiah and any other Old Testament Prophets. This will become all the more relevant as this post goes on.
The 4th Mormon Prophet Wilfred Woodruff said this:
“I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p. 212-213. See also Doctrine and Covenants Official Declaration—1).
However Mormon Scripture does still very much support everything that is being said here.
“Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life, and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable fire” (Doctrine and Covenants 101:65-66).
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them. (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20)
The Mormon Church claims to be the one Church on the face of the earth that has a Prophet that actually hears directly from God, and therefore teaches with the authority that one would have in this position.
This chapter of the manual also says:
Through a continual course of progression our Heavenly Father has received exaltation and glory and he points us out the same path and, inasmuch as he is clothed with power, authority and glory, he says, “walk ye up and come in possession of the same glory and happiness that I possess.” (p.85)
So Mormonism at its core teaches this:
“As man now is, God once was: “As God now is, man may be.”
Second Point
This is an unbiblical teaching and does in fact point people towards a God that by virtue of being unbiblical therefore does not exist.
(see bottom of page for references)
The God of the Bible.
The Heavenly Father of the Bible is so amazing and outside of human understanding that His actions and judgements alone are beyond us (1). He does as He pleases (2), He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we could ask or imagine (3). He has from everlasting to everlasting been God (4). He is so glorious that when He shows mercy on His people, the mercy is primarily to display His own namesake and praise even before it is for the good of the receiver of the mercy (5). Our Father in heaven draws people to Himself so that they might praise and glorify (6) the God most high (7) the only God that exists (8) the one who knows everything (9) and yet does not know of any other Gods that exist whatsoever. (10) This God exists for Himself and has made us so that we may find no greater joy than what we find in communion with Him (11). It is the fool that says that this God does not exist (12) and He needs nothing from anyone, no one ever taught Him a thing, (13) yet He is able to keep us from falling (25) He does not know and He owes no one anything that He should repay them (14) . This God is the source of everything that is (13) and exists by virtue of His being (15), that is far above any other being that Has been and ever will be(10).
While we are at it the Jesus of the Bible was equal with His Father before His incarnation (16), He created everything that exists and all of those things exist for Him (17). Being God and being equal with His Father means that He is worthy of worship and also exists for His glory and receives it in abundance from the Father (18), this is so much the case that in honouring Jesus we are honouring the Father at the same time (19). Yet God will not share His glory with another (20). Through this we see that Jesus eternally has been and always will be God in the fullest sense.
He stepped down sacrificing His glorious form to take the form of us (16), sinful people in the flesh. He took the full punishment for the sins of those that would trust Him (21), saving them to the uttermost(22). He built a Church that hell would not be able to overcome (23) that He forever intercedes for(22), and will present to Himself glorious (24) , a people who will forever know where the real success of the Church came from. This Jesus is so glorious that the highest goal and promise to His people is that they might spend eternity with Him(26).
The Holy Ghost of the Bible dwells everywhere(27), and leads people into all truth (28)allowing them through communion with Him to know the truth of Gods word(29). He carries the title of God (30) and therefore is as all sufficient and worthy of all glory and honour as the Father and Son, yet in His submission to the divine economy of the Trinity seeks to point our attention to Christ (31) as Christ is also subject to the Father.
The Gods of Mormonism
Heavenly Father in Mormonism is subject to the eternal law of eternal progression that all of the other gods are(32). He gives the same laws and ordnances to His people that all other gods do (33) and is unable to create anything out of nothing(34). He was once a man, a finite being (35) and His glory is based on our progression(36). He gives us laws and ordnances to carry out if we are faithful we might become a god like He did(37). He is has a heavenly Father who has a heavenly Father with the cycle infinity occurring (38) He is by no means the only God but rather just our God (38). Our ultimate joy is found in spending eternity with our families(39). He was once just like any other finite being (40) and some Mormon prophets have said He is still learning now(41). This God is unable or unwilling to keep His people from falling and exists due to the process of eternal progression that pre-dates His deity(39). This God is not the God of the Bible and does not exist.
The Jesus of Mormonism being the first born of our Heavenly parents had a status of being a god before coming to the earth (42) but needed to faithfully live out His plan of salvation to receive His exaltation as all of the rest of us do(43), therefore this was not truly a sacrifice for Him but rather a tough promotion process. Jesus as our elder brother is not to be worshipped(44) and is a separate being to His Father and had to earn His status as fully exalted and fully a God like we all do(43).
For Him coming to the earth and receiving a body was a step up rather than down as this was necessary to further His progression(43). He takes partial punishment for our sins so that we can be raised after the resurrection but what happens after that depends on our works for Him(45). He was unable to keep a Church together but thankfully Joseph Smith came and did what He could not do, and kept a Church together(46). This Jesus is who people who don’t make the celestial kingdom can expect to get visits from Jesus in the Terrestrial Kingdom(47). Those that progressed further get to spend eternity with their family, which is a bigger blessing than spending it with Jesus(48). This Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible and does not exist.
The Holy Ghost of Mormonism is less known and talked about personally. However He has been selected for the role of the Holy Ghost and one day will have to get a physical body and come to earth for His progression like everyone else(49). He cannot be everywhere at once(50) and in fact leaves whenever contention and sin are present(51). He has the status of God but is not as great as the Father until He one day faithfully lives out His plan of salvation(52). This is not the Holy Ghost of the Bible and does not exist.
Third Point
That Christians should raise this issue again and again with Mormons.
If you have ever tried talking about this issue with Mormon Missionaries you will often get told, “We don’t usually talk about this at this stage”. They are told to give the milk before the meat. The meat very much being the LDS view of the nature of God as this is so foreign to what Christians believe that they know they will get very few converts if this is shared.
However Jesus said in John 8:24 that “unless you believe I AM HE (referring to Gods name for Himself in Exodus 3:14) you will die in your sins.” The issue of who Christ is, is vital to our salvation and as we understand the greatness of the Father we see how great Christ is in that He had equality with the Father before He came to the earth therefore what He went through was truly a sacrifice. We need to show this vital truth to Mormons so that they can know that Jesus atonement was truly the greatest miracle that has ever occurred and that they can be saved to the uttermost by trusting in this Christ and finally being able to say with Paul:
Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
If you know this Jesus you are saved and righteous in the sight of God by putting on the Lord Jesus Christ, not based on works but on Him who calls (Romans 9:12) in knowing the greatness of Christ we can truly know the greatness of salvation. I always say that Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are actually very consistent as if they believe in a lesser Christ they must believe in a lesser atonement and therefore believe in a lesser salvation where the sacrifice of Christ alone does not by faith save us, but rather by works, which is no salvation.
This short video on a lighter note paints this picture well.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Do you have this grace?
Thanks for reading, as ever please leave comments below.
References.
1,Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
2,Romans 11:33 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
3,Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
4,Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
5,Isaiah 48:9-119 For my name’s sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
6,Jeremiah 13:11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
7,Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all
8,Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
9,1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
10,Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
11,Psalm 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
12,Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
13,Romans 11:34-3634 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
14, Romans 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
15,John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
16,Philippians 2:5-115 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
17,Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
18,John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
19,John 5:23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
20,Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
21,John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
22,Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
23,Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
24,Ephesians 5:25-2725 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
25,Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
26,Philippians 1:21-2321 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Also1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
27,Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
28,John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
29,John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
30,Acts 5:3-43 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
31,John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
32,Brigham Young, July 10, 1870, Journal of Discourses 14:71-72 “How many earths are there? I observed this morning that you may take the particles of matter composing this earth, and if they could be enumerated they would only be a beginning to the number of the creations of God; and they are continually coming into existence, and undergoing changes and passing through the same experience that we are passing through. Sin is upon every earth that ever was created, and if it was not so, I would like some philosophers to let us know how people can be exalted to become sons of God, and enjoy a fulness of glory with the Redeemer. Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through” .
33,Alonzo L. Gaskill, Odds Are, You’re Going to be Exalted, p. 8 “The laws and ordinances by which men and women are exalted in the celestial kingdom of our God are eternal and do not change – and because they are eternal, they predate God. Yes, they have always existed and have ever been in operation. And no, they are not negotiable. All beings are saved on the same principles – by the same laws and ordinances – in all dispensations, on every earth created by the God who ‘upholds all worlds and all things by his power’”.
34 Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 48 “Man and Matter Eternal – Mankind are organized of element designed to endure to all eternity; it never had a beginning and never can have an end. There never was a time when this matter, of which you and I are composed, was not in existence, and there never can be a time when it will pass out of existence; it cannot be annihilated. It is brought together, organized, and capacitated to receive knowledge and intelligence, to be enthroned in glory, to be made angels, Gods-beings who will hold control over the elements, and have power by their word to command the creation and redemption of worlds, or to extinguish suns by their breath, and disorganize worlds, hurling them back into their chaotic state. This is what you and I are created for”.
35,Joseph Smith, King Follet Discourse. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity.I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.
37,Lorenzo Snow “As man now is, God once was:
“As God now is, man may be.”
AlsoThomas Monson, “An Invitation to Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1988, p. 56).“It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings must be earned”
38, Orson Hyde, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 299 “There are Lords many, and Gods many, for they are called Gods to whom the word of God comes, and the word of God comes to all these kings and priests. But to our branch of the kingdom there is but one God, to whom we all owe the most perfect submission and loyalty; yet our God is just as subject to still higher intelligences, as we should be to him”.
39, James E. Faust, “Eternity Lies before Us,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1997, p. 19“The Savior’s supernal gift to mankind gave us the opportunity for eternal life, but eternal life without our loved ones would be bleak”.
Also “The family is central to the Creator’s plan,” Ensign, December 2004, p. 51 “‘The fullness of eternal salvation is a family affair,’ said Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. ‘The gospel plan originated in the council of an eternal family, it is implemented through our earthly families, and has its destiny in our eternal families’”.
40,Brigham Young, October 8, 1859, Journal of Discourses 7:333 “It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been once a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed”.
41, The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, p.3. “GOD IS INCREASING IN KNOWLEDGE. If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further, the very idea would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mind. God Himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end”
Also Brigham Young, Deseret News, June 18, 1873, p. 309. See also Eugene England, “Perfection and Progression: Two Complimentary ways to talk about God,” BYU Studies, Summer 1989, pg.37 “Now do not lariat the God that I serve and say that he can not learn any more; I do not believe in such a character”.
42,Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323 “Christ attained Godhood while yet in pre-existence, he too stood as a God to the other spirits, but this relationship was not the same one of personal parenthood that prevailed between the Father and his offspring”.
43Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:33 “CHRIST GAINED FULNESS AFTER RESURRECTION. The Savior did not have a fulness at first, but after he received his body and the resurrection all power was given unto him both in heaven and in earth. Although he was a God, even the Son of God, with power and authority to create this earth and other earths, yet there were some things lacking which he did not receive until after his resurrection. In other words he had not received the fulness until he got a resurrected body, and the same is true with those who through faithfulness become sons of God. Our bodies are essential to the fulness and the continuation of the seeds forever”.
44,Bruce Mcconkie, Our relationship with the Lord1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else.We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
45,Boyd K. Packer, “The Mediator,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1977, pp. 54-55. “Let me tell you a story—a parable. There once was a man who wanted something very much. It seemed more important than anything else in his life. In order for him to have his desire, he incurred a great debt. He had been warned about going into that much debt, and particularly about his creditor. But it seemed so important for him to do what he wanted to do and to have what he wanted right now. He was sure he could pay for it later. So he signed a contract. He would pay it off some time along the way. He didn’t worry too much about it, for the due date seemed such a long time away. He had what he wanted now, and that was what seemed important. The creditor was always somewhere in the back of his mind, and he made token payments now and again, thinking somehow that the day of reckoning really would never come. But as it always does, the day came, and the contract fell due. The debt had not been fully paid. His creditor appeared and demanded payment in full. Only then did he realize that his creditor not only had the power to repossess all that he owned, but the power to cast him into prison as well. ‘I cannot pay you, for I have not the power to do so,’ he confessed. ‘Then,’ said the creditor, ‘we will exercise the contract, take your possessions, and you shall go to prison. You agreed to that. It was your choice. You signed the contract, and now it must be enforced.’ ‘Can you not extend the time or forgive the debt?’ the debtor begged. ‘Arrange some way for me to keep what I have and not go to prison. Surely you believe in mercy? Will you not show mercy?’ The creditor replied, ‘Mercy is always so one-sided. It would serve only you. If I show mercy to you, it will leave me unpaid. It is justice I demand. Do you believe in justice?’ ‘I believed in justice when I signed the contract,’ the debtor said. ‘It was on my side then, for I thought it would protect me. I did not need mercy then, nor think I should need it ever. Justice, I thought, would serve both of us equally as well.’ ‘It is justice that demands that you pay the contract or suffer the penalty,’ the creditor replied. ‘That is the law. You have agreed to it and that is the way it must be. Mercy cannot rob justice.’ There they were: One meting out justice, the other pleading for mercy. Neither could prevail except at the expense of the other. ‘If you do not forgive the debt there will be no mercy,’ the debtor pleaded. ‘If I do, there will be no justice,’ was the reply. Both laws, it seemed, could not be served. They are two eternal ideals that appear to contradict one another. Is there no way for justice to be fully served, and mercy also? There is a way! The law of justice can be fully satisfied and mercy can be fully extended—but it takes someone else. And so it happened this time. The debtor had a friend. He came to help. He knew the debtor well. He knew him to be shortsighted. He thought him foolish to have gotten himself into such a predicament. Nevertheless, he wanted to help because he loved him. He stepped between them, faced the creditor, and made this offer. ‘I will pay the debt if you will free the debtor from his contract so that he may keep his possessions and not go to prison.’ As the creditor was pondering the offer, the mediator added, ‘You demanded justice. Though he cannot pay you, I will do so. You will have been justly dealt with and can ask no more. It would not be just.’ And so the creditor agreed. The mediator turned then to the debtor. ‘If I pay your debt, will you accept me as your creditor?’ ‘Oh yes, yes,’ cried the debtor. ‘You save me from prison and show mercy to me.’ ‘Then,’ said the benefactor, ‘you will pay the debt to me and I will set the terms. It will not be easy, but it will be possible. I will provide a way. You need not go to prison.’ And so it was that the creditor was paid in full. He had been justly dealt with. No contract had been broken. The debtor, in turn, had been extended mercy. Both laws stood fulfilled. Because there was a mediator, justice had claimed its full share, and mercy was fully satisfied.”
46,Joseph Smith, History of the Church 6:408-409“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet”.
47,Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions 1:81 “Those who were honorable men who will be permitted to go to the terrestrial kingdom will be blessed with ministrations from the celestial kingdom. They will be privileged with visitations from Jesus Christ but will be denied the presence of the Father. Thus we learn that our Eternal Father will do all that he can for the inhabitants of the earth according to their works. The inhabitants of the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms will be given a measure of salvation, but not the fulness. They will be redeemed from the power of Satan after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions and have learned to be obedient to divine law”.
48,“The family is central to the Creator’s plan,” Ensign, December 2004, p. 51 “‘The fullness of eternal salvation is a family affair,’ said Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. ‘The gospel plan originated in the council of an eternal family, it is implemented through our earthly families, and has its destiny in our eternal families’”.
49, Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith’s Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)“The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did.”
50,Joseph F. Smith, Discourses on the Holy Ghost, N.B. Lundwall, ed., p. 53 “The Holy Ghost as a personage of Spirit can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son, but by his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence, over and through the laws of nature, he is and can be omnipresent throughout all the works of God”.
51, LDS.org If we argue and quarrel, the Holy Ghost leaves. Although arguing with a husband, a child, or a brother or sister may not be a serious sin, it does drive the Holy Ghost away.
52,Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards. “The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.”
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