Well, it’s that time of the year again, where I take that 17 (or more) hours journey to Utah. This time thankfully I am not travelling alone. UPFC volunteer and ex-Jehovah’s Witness Tony Brown, and also Lee Burrows a local friend from Middlesbrough are coming along. We have quite a bit planned.
While we are here we are going to be doing outreach at Temple Square.
Also we will be at the Manti Miracle Pageant, doing outreach with a hundred or so Christians there.
We hope to have a great time, have some great loving relationships with LDS people, and further strengthen our links and relationships with Christians over in Utah. We will be spending time in various locations, such as Salt Lake City, Ogden, Ephraim, Manti and Provo.
Provo was found in a study by J.D Payne to be the least evangelised city in the entire USA. It is home to Brigham Young University, and has a massive need for Christian outreach. The reality is on a 12 day trip we likely won’t see that change, but its a great opportunity to be challenged and motivated for what this ministry is doing in the UK, as well as hopefully seeing God work in peoples lives in Utah.
We are mega excited about this, and I hope you will pray for us, keep an eye on this site for updates, and offer some comments of support (or by all means challenge if you disagree with us doing this) here and there.
Here is a conversation I had on the streets of Manti a couple of years ago, to give you an idea of what we will be doing.
While it goes without saying that this blog and others like it seek to show the Biblical problems of the Mormon faith, and thus present the true gospel, it is also true to say that some of the arguments used for this purpose are not great.
I have been there many times whether on facebook or face to face and seen Christians present an argument to Mormons that they think easily wins the day, and refutes Mormonism in a single swoop. Yet even I find myself thinking “that does not prove your point at all”. And this the Mormon easily refutes it, and walks alway thinking “those darn evangelicals don’t have a clue.”
My friend Fred W Anson from the blog Beggers Bread and I have decided to co write a series pointing out these arguments, explaining the issues, and also presenting some better arguments you might use instead. We are not saying we get everything right, however from years of experience we have found that Mormons do not find some arguments persuasive, and for good reason.
The Argument: “Everyone knows that the Biblical canon is closed – it says so at the very end of the Bible in Revelation 22:18 which says:
I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
So Joseph Smith willfully defied God’s Word by adding new scripture to a canon of scripture that God said was complete and forever closed!”
Why it’s weak: 1) It’s a misinterpretation of the passage. As Bill McKeever of Mormon Research Ministry explains:
Revelation 22:18 read in context and carefully is referring solely to itself – not the Bible in it’s entirety and not to any other book of the Bible. This is clearer when the verse is considered in it’s full context:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. – Revelation 22:16-21 (KJV)
Notice the use of the terms, ” the words of the prophecy of this book” and “the words of the book of this prophecy” limiting the conditions exclusively to “this book” and “this prophecy”. The language of the text itself limits the scope of these conditions to this book of prophecy – that is, the book that we now know as “The Book of Revelation”.
2) It’s location at the close of the Biblical canon isn’t relevant.
The reasoning behind the order of the books of the New Testament is no mystery: In the ancient world works of literature were bound by category, author, and then finally by length from longest to shortest. [1] As John MacArthur’s Grace to You website explains:
The books in the English Bible follow a subject arrangement and are not in the order they were written. The arrangement mirrors that of the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament made a few hundred years before Christ…
The New Testament order is also based on subject categories. First come the historical books–the gospels and Acts. Then come the epistles–first those from Paul, then those written by the other writers. Revelation comes at the end.
The early church always grouped the gospels with Matthew first, followed by Mark or Luke, then the gospel of John. It also arranged the Pauline epistles in two categories–first the epistles to the churches, then the personal letters. It typically arranged those epistles according to size or length. The personal letters and general epistles (non-Pauline writings) appear to follow that arrangement–Hebrews first, followed by the writings of James, Peter, John, and Jude. [2]
So, just as the Old Testament Septuagint had the prophetic books at the end, so does the New Testament – it just so happened that there was only one prophetic book. Sure, one can argue that the order of the books were divinely inspired but it too is a weak argument given all the other evidence that contradicts what essentially amounts to nothing more than confirmation bias laden speculation.
3) Using this same tactic, it also be argued that the New Testament is likewise condemned in the Old Testament.
If one applies this same kind of (sloppy, out of context) exegesis consistently then the New Testament is condemned by similar, earlier passages in the Bible:
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
–Deuteronomy 4:2 (KJV)
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it. – Deuteronomy 12:32 (KJV)
Yet, many many books and commandments were added to the Biblical canon afterwards – including most the of the Old, all of the New Testament, and Christ’s new commandments in the gospels. And like Revelation 22:18 one need only read these verses in context to see why this isn’t a problem – again, these words applied only to the portion of scripture that they were contained in, not the entirety of the Bible.
4) This argument condemns the Apostle John too. If Revelation 22:18 is applied to the other canonized writings of the Apostle John (the author of the Book of Revelation) then he’s just as guilty as Joseph Smith is. That’s because the body of evidence demonstrates that the Book of Revelation was the probably first book that John wrote with his gospel and epistles coming later. The approximate timeline is as follows:
The Book of Revelation – circa 68
The Gospel of John – circa 85
The Epistles of John – circa 90-95 [3]
This is because internal evidence in the Book of Revelation would seem to indicate that it was written before 70AD because the Temple in Jerusalem was still standing when it was written:
Revelation 1-11 alludes frequently to the fall of Jerusalem. John is called to measure the temple, without any suggestion that it is destroyed (11:1). Jesus told His disciples that within their generation, not one stone of the temple would be left on top another (Mt. 24:2). The temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 and never rebuilt. Thus, it is evident that Revelation was written before that judgment. [4]
Further, John’s epistles assume that the reader is familiar with material that’s unique to both the Book of Revelation and his gospel narrative:
Many of these themes in 1-3 John are also present in the Gospel of John. The subject of truth and the idea of a commandment of love is prominent in both books, along with the idea that God is light. “Eternal life” is a phrase that occurs with disproportionate frequency in John and 1 John. Common between the Gospel of John and Revelation are the ideas of Christ as the Lamb and the water of life. Christ is described by the Greek word “logos”, meaning “word”, in John 1:1, 14; 1 John 1:1, and Rev 19:13, but nowhere else in the Bible. Only Rev 1:7 and John 19:34 say Jesus was “pierced.” The picture of Christ as a lamb is also prominent in both books. Finally, Rev 1:1-2, “…John, who bore record of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw”, could be read as saying that the author of this book previously wrote the gospel as well. [5]
So if Revelation 22:18 applies to any and all additional scripture after the Book of Revelation was written then the Apostle John is just as condemned by it as Joseph Smith is.
The Stronger Arguments: There are actually not one, but two stronger Biblical arguments that can be made for rejecting Joseph Smith’s prophetic claims as well as his alleged new scripture.
First Suggested Strong Argument:
Limit the scope of your argument to the Book of Revelation pointing out that in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (JST) Joseph Smith both took away from and added to the Book of Revelation thus blatantly and willfully violating Revelation 22:18.
Remarkably, the LdS Church not only doesn’t deny this fact, it boasts about it:
Acting by the spirit of prophecy and revelation, Joseph Smith corrected portions, but not all, of what is amiss in the King James Version of the Bible. In the book of Revelation corrections, for instance, the angels of the various earthly churches become the servants (presiding officers) of those units. The lamb with seven horns and seven eyes becomes a lamb with 12 eyes and 12 horns, thus perfecting the symbolism to identify Christ and his apostles. Chapter 12 is so revised as to identify the woman as the church of God and the child that she brought forth as the kingdom of our God and of his Christ. And so forth. – LdS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, “Understanding the Book of Revelation”[6]
Appendix A contains a list of the changes that Joseph Smith made to the Book of Revelation in the Joseph Smith Translation.
Second Suggested Strong Argument: Use other Bible passages instead of Revelation 22:18 and reframe the argument. Mormon Researcher Bill McKeever explains:
…the Bible contains other warnings regarding those who would attempt to put words in God’s mouth. These include Deuteronomy 4:2; “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” And Proverbs 30:6 states “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
If both passages were strictly speaking to the problem of adding scripture to the canon, it could be argued that nothing should have been written (or accepted) after Moses penned Deuteronomy since it contains the first of such admonitions. In both cases these passages address the temptation for anyone to presumptuously speak for God. God does not take lightly those who would pretend to speak for Him when they were not authorized to do so. In fact, to be found guilty of speaking for God when God did not speak warranted the death penalty according to Deuteronomy 18:20, “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
The real issue lies in whether or not Joseph Smith was really acting as a mouthpiece for the Almighty. Did he truly reflect the mind and will of God by his teachings? Or did he inject his own views into what is today referred to as the “restored gospel”? Since it is obvious that his teachings conflict in many respects with those of the Bible, we must choose the latter. – Bill McKeever, “Does Revelation 22:18 Condemn the Book of Mormon?”
Another Bible passage that I use in this regard is Deuteronomy 13:1-4 – which I like to cite from the Joseph Smith Translation because: a) It’s identical to the King James Version, and; b) using the Joseph Smith Translation eliminates getting the “it’s not translated correctly” objection from Mormons:
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. – Deuteronomy 13:1-4 (JST)
And only did Joseph Smith say, “Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them” he actually boasted about it while doing so:
I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is…God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret…I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. – Joseph Smith, “The King Follett Sermon”[7]
I hope that the reader can see that these are much stronger arguments against Joseph Smith’s claim that he was a true prophet of God. And if you’ve been using the weak argument that has been presented here you’ll consider using these instead.
“Landscape with St John the Evangelist at Patmos” by Gillis Coignet (c. 1542–1599) from the Hermitage Museum
NOTES [1] This system of arranging literature was called “Stichometry”.
[5] Craig Davis, “Dating the New Testament”, The Gospel of John, the Letters of 1, 2 and 3 John, and Revelation. Note: While Mr. Davis presumes that the Gospel of John was written prior to the Book of Revelation, this isn’t entirely clear from the text of either book. However, what is clear from the internal evidence is that John’s epistles were written last – after both John’s gospel and the Book of Revelation.
[6] Bruce R. McConkie, “Understanding the Book of Revelation”, Ensign, September 1975. What Mr. McConkie failed to mention here is that Joseph Smith had absolutely no manuscript support – or verifiable support of any kind for that matter – for his changes while the King James translators remained faithful to the source manuscripts they translated from. A fuller explanation and analysis of Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible can be found on the Mormon Think (click here) and Mormon Research Ministry (click here) websites.
Rev 1:1-8 John received a revelation from Jesus Christ and delivered it to the leaders over the seven churches in Asia rather than the book being a revelation of Jesus Christ.
JST
1 The Revelation of John, a servant of God, which was given unto him of Jesus Christ, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass, that he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John,
2 Who bore record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed are they who read, and they who hear and understand the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, for the time of the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
4 Now this is the testimony of John to the seven servants who are overthe seven churches in Asia. Grace unto you, and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come; who hath sent forth his angel frombefore his throne, to testify unto those who are the seven servants over the seven churches.
5 Therefore, I, John, the faithful witness, bear record of the things which were delivered me of the angel, and from Jesus Christ the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth.
6 And unto him who loved us, be glory; who washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God, his Father. To him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen.
7 For behold, he cometh in the clouds with ten thousands of his saints in the kingdom, clothed with the glory of his Father. And every eye shall see him; and they who pierced him, and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 For he saith, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
KJV 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev. 1:16, 20 The seven stars in the Savior’s hand are actually leaders of the seven churches rather than their angels.
JST
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars; and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword; and his countenance was as the sun shining in his strength.
20 This is the mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the servants of the seven churches; and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rev. 2: 22 Jezebel and the wicked will be cast into hell rather than into a bed.
JST
22 Behold, I will cast her into hell, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
KJV 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev. 2:26–27 Several changes and additions made
JST 26 And to him who overcometh, and keepeth my commandments unto the end, will I give power over many kingdoms;
27 And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice, even as I received of my Father.
KJV 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev. 5:6 Twelve servants of God are sent to all the earth rather than seven Spirits of God.
JST
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having twelve horns and twelve eyes, which are the twelve servants of God, sent forth into all the earth.
KJV 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev. 12:1—17 Several changes and additions, including a reordering of verses. The woman and the man represent the kingdom of God and the Church of Jesus Christ.
JST 1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.
4 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman which was delivered, ready to devour her child after it was born.
5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.
6 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.
9 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ;
10 For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 For they have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; for they loved not their own lives, but kept the testimony even unto death. Therefore, rejoice O heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
12 And after these things I heard another voice saying, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, yea, and they who dwell upon the islands of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 For when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child.
14 Therefore, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent casteth out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helpeth the woman, and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth up the flood which the dragon casteth out of his mouth.
17 Therefore, the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev. 13:1 The beast of Revelation 13 is in “the likeness of the kingdoms of the earth.”
JST
1 And I saw another sign, in the likeness of the kingdoms of the earth; a beast rise up out of the sea, and he stood upon the sand of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns; and upon his horns ten crowns; and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev. 19: 15, 21 God uses the word of Christ rather than a sword to smite the nations.
JST
15 And out of his mouth proceedeth the word of god, and with it he will smite the nations; and he will rule them with the word of his mouth; and he treadeth the winepress in the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
21 And the remnant were slain with the word of him that sat upon the horse, which word proceeded out of his mouth; and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
KJV 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Additions in Doctrine & Covenants
And, finally, Doctrine & Covenants 77 is a wholesale addition to the Book of Revelation by claiming to be a divinely inspired interpretation of the book directly from God Himself. For example, the woman [the Church], the child [the kingdom of God], the rod of iron [the word of God], the dragon [Satan], and Michael are explained. The war in heaven is continued on the earth.
Doctrine &Covenants 77 1 Q. What is the sea of glass spoken of by John, 4th chapter, and 6th verse of the Revelation?
A. It is the earth, in its sanctified, immortal, and eternal state.
2 Q. What are we to understand by the four beasts, spoken of in the same verse?
A. They are figurative expressions, used by the Revelator, John, in describing heaven, the paradise of God, the happiness of man, and of beasts, and of creeping things, and of the fowls of the air; that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created.
3 Q. Are the four beasts limited to individual beasts, or do they represent classes or orders?
A. They are limited to four individual beasts, which were shown to John, to represent the glory of the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation, in the enjoyment of their eternal felicity.
4 Q. What are we to understand by the eyes and wings, which the beasts had?
A. Their eyes are a representation of light and knowledge, that is, they are full of knowledge; and their wings are a representation of power, to move, to act, etc.
5 Q. What are we to understand by the four and twenty elders, spoken of by John?
A. We are to understand that these elders whom John saw, were elders who had been faithful in the work of the ministry and were dead; who belonged to the seven churches, and were then in the paradise of God.
6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will,mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.
7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.
8 Q. What are we to understand by the four angels, spoken of in the 7th chapter and 1st verse of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that they are four angels sent forth from God, to whom is given power over the four parts of the earth, to save life and to destroy; these are they who have the everlasting gospel to commit to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people; having power to shut up the heavens, to seal up unto life, or to cast down to the regions of darkness.
9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.
10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?
A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.
12 Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctifythe earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming.
13 Q. When are the things to be accomplished, which are written in the 9th chapter of Revelation?A. They are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal, before the coming of Christ.
14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.
15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?
A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.
Well Lynn and Michael Wilder have gone home now after a great speaking tour in the UK. You can catch one of the sessions they did on our podcast here. They did sessions in Kent, Wimbledon, Bradford and York. I believe in total around 250 people attended all of the sessions.
However while they were here Lynn also recorded an Episode of Unbelievable? With Justin Brierly. This is a really well done show where each week there is a dialogue between a Christian and a non Christian, or sometime in house issues amongst Christians. On this show Lynn has dialogue with a friend of mine Michael Flournoy. He wrote the book A Biblical Defense Of Mormonism, and is an LDS Apologist well experienced in dialoguing with Evangelicals.
You can catch the show on the Unbelievable? Site here, or below. If you don’t already regularly listen to this show, I think it really is the best Apologetics Radio show in the UK and covers a wide variety of fascinating issues. Their conference is actually being held in London next week, for more info on that see here.
(left click to listen, right click then save link as to download.)
As well if you are interested I recorded two episodes of this show a couple of years ago in dialoguing with active LDS member Charles Dayton. You can find those here and here. Also Russ East of our parent ministry Utah Partnerships for Christ, recorded an episode with LDS scholar Brian Hales last year, you can find that here.
This third chapter is entitled ‘None Righteous, No, Not One’ and its purpose is to make it very plain that we are all sinful.
Spencer Kimball’s first point here is to suggest that, in general, people are far better at recognising the sins of others and the fact that others ought to repent, rather than looking to themselves first. As he says, “Apparently it is much easier to see those [other people’s] sins than our own, and to walk com-placently through life without acknowledging our own need to mend our ways.” I am rather surprised at this statement. Certainly, growing up Mormon, my own experience was of an awareness, perhaps even an unhealthy obsession with, my sins and own unworthiness. For the Mormon, one’s whole life is an ongoing trial and an impossible challenge along a pathway to “mend our ways” to such an extent that one day we can be exalted (i.e. become a god).
Kimball then goes on to quote a series of Bible verses that set out our sinfulness. “There is none that doeth good, no, not one”, “there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not”, “who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from sin?”, etc. There are a couple of other Bible selections made by Kimball in this early part of the chapter but I wish to return to his use of those verses a little later.
After supplementing the Bible verses on our sinfulness with a couple of examples from the Doctrine and Covenants, Kimball adds: “There is never a day in any man’s life when repentance is not essential to his well-being and eternal progress.” Now, whilst I would not wish to belittle the significance of re-pentance at all, I would suggest that it is unbiblical to teach that daily repentance is essential to our eternal progress. Moreover, as many people, myself included, have demonstrated on this site, the Bible doesn’t support this Mormon notion of eternal progress in any case. Our repentance is a perma-nent choice we have made, and are continuing to make in our lives; a turning towards the Lord and a turning away from sinful actions. We are turning to the Lord as a response to his sacrifice for our sins. This is a gift that we have gratefully accepted, in the knowledge that, ‘There is none that doeth good, no, not one’ and also understanding that, ‘For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:’ (Ephesians 2:8) Clearly, if someone claims to be a Christian but is never brought to a position where they are asking prayerfully for forgiveness for their sins, you have got to question their original claim. But by the same token, a daily act of repentance is not the ultimate solution to some sort of eternal outcome. What would Kimball say in the case of an individual who had sinned after doing their daily repenting, but died before the next time that they ought to do some more ‘daily repenting’? Where does the Mormon God draw the line?
Kimball states later on that, “Repentance is for every soul who has not yet reached perfection.” This leads one to reflect back on the case that Kimball made so emphatically earlier, when, using Bible verses, he demonstrated that every single person is sinful. None is righteous. So where does he get this idea that we can reach perfection? The Bible has something to say about this, but it is a very different notion to the Mormon idea of perfection being when we become gods. One of the Bible verses Kimball quoted was Romans 5:12. In Romans 5 we are given God’s real view of our sinfulness and how we can be restored to how we ought to be. Kimball quotes verse 12 to demonstrate that all have sinned, but it should come as no surprise, given that he is presenting Mormon teaching in his book and not Bible teaching, that he neglects to consider verses 17-19, which state: “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” It is important to remember that humankind was made in God’s image and God saw that it was good. For God to call his work ‘good’, we know that is saying something! Yet humankind needed to be made right with God once more, after ‘the Fall’ and it is through Christ that this takes place. That is what Romans 5 is telling us. We do not become sinless by ridding ourselves of our sins. As the Bible states, none is righteous. The Bible tells us here in Romans that, “by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Note here, be made righteous, not ‘make themselves righteous’. So perfection in Biblical terms is being ‘made righteous’. The idea is that God looks at those who are saved and sees the righteousness of the only one who truly is righteous, our Lord.
Kimball goes on to look at the life of Joseph Smith as someone who had to acknowledge and confess his own sins, the implication being that if someone as great as a chosen prophet had to work at over-coming sin, then we must also do the same. In this part Kimball uses the words of Smith himself, words well-known to Mormons: “In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. A disposition to commit such was never in my nature.” Kimball describes this and the rest of the account that this quote comes from ‘as a simple and honest confession’, but could it not also come across as someone trying to make excuses or minimising their own sinfulness? You’re either sinful or not according to the Bible. Surely, when making a confession, a man of God should come across as having a bit more humility. Interestingly, in this section about Joseph Smith and the importance of his efforts to lead an exemplary life, Kimball quotes D & C 3:4, “For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal de-sires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him.” I find this a fascinating quote be-cause, with hindsight one could see this as Joseph Smith condemning himself, since there are well-known quotations where Joseph Smith boasts of his achievements, even putting himself above Jesus. Of course, as well as this, Smith followed ‘after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires’, this proving eventually to be his final downfall.
In this section, Kimball illustrates well the sense of ‘fear of failure’ that many Mormons feel. He says, “Every person is subject to error if he is not always watchful, for victory over Satan is attained only by constant vigilance.” What a statement for a leader (who later became a prophet) of the one true Christian church to make. We achieve victory over Satan only by constant vigilance. Really? Doesn’t Jesus fit into this picture somewhere?
Before concluding chapter 3, Kimball wants us to know that he has seen an awful lot of Mormons and wants them all to know that he has spotted them doing an awful of naughty things! He takes up five paragraphs, roughly a quarter of the chapter, detailing many examples of behaviour by LDS members that he doesn’t like. There are about fifteen sentences in this section beginning with, “I find”, “I saw”, “I have seen”, or “There are those/ some” where he outlines actions such as being unloving parents or spouses, gossiping and divisive church members, people speaking unkindly to others and questioning the motives of each other and church leaders. Considering the fact that this chapter begins with an important reminder to focus on one’s own need for repentance rather than looking at others, this lengthy bout of finger-pointing seems to me quite distasteful and hypocritical.
I wanted to end this review with another stark example of Kimball’s technique of pulling Bible verses out of their context and throwing them into his own context to make a completely different point. As I stated earlier, Kimball begins the chapter talking about ‘our own need to mend our ways’ and uses many Bible verses to demonstrate that all of us are sinners. The first example he gives is two verses from 1 John 1, which are presented like this, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” Sounds fair enough right? But of course check the verses used in brackets: verse 8 and verse 10. How about looking directly at 1 John 1 and reading verses 7 – 10 inclusive this time? “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
So what has been removed in Kimball’s quote? Well, the gospel in a nutshell basically. God is faithful, just and forgives our sins, and cleanses us from all sin/ unrighteousness through the blood of Jesus. In Kimball’s teaching we must mend our own ways in order to reach perfection (which means becoming a god). This is another gospel. This is the ‘impossible gospel’ of the LDS church and it is not based around what the Bible tells us about sin and how God wishes to deal with sin. As Proverbs 20:9 puts it, “Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from sin?”
In this article Cardon tells of a conversation he had whilst on mission, this conversation resulted in the conversion of the man he was speaking with.
“When it was our turn, I asked, “How do you know the United States exists?” I testified of its reality and asked if there was other evidence that proved its existence. He said he had read about it in books and newspapers. I then asked if he believed my testimony and what he had read. He emphatically said he did.
“So we cannot deny the testimonies of those, such as I, from the United States,” I said. “Nor can we deny the testimony of those who have written about it.” The young man agreed.
I then asked, “Based on this premise, can we deny the testimonies of those who have seen God and written of their experience?” I showed him the Bible, telling him that it contained testimonies of men and women who had seen and talked with God and Jesus Christ. I asked if we can deny the testimonies contained in the Bible, and he reluctantly said no.
I then asked, “What would you think of a book written by a people other than those in the Bible who saw the same God as the writers of Bible?” He responded that no such book existed.
We showed him the Book of Mormon and taught him of its purpose. We testified that it was true and that God still communicates through living prophets today.”
So here’s the logic…
Testimonies prove a thing to be true
The Book of Mormon contains testimonies
Therefore the Book of Mormon is true
The thing is though, testimonies don’t prove a thing to be true, ever heard of a false testimony? And there is a question of the number and quality of the witnesses?
This little story suggests that we simply cannot deny a testimony. Now within Mormonism a testimony is an important thing, Members of the Church ‘bear their testimony,” as a display of their faith. Or a Mormon who has been battered into a theological corner might ‘bear their testimony,’ I know the church is true.” Most Christians would respond with, “well how do you know? On what do you base this belief?” But this “knowing,” is something deeply embedded within Mormonism. In fact in order to become a Mormon you must firstly Pray and see “if it is not true,” you must gain this knowing, this burning in the bosom. So to a member of the LDSChurch this question of weather or not you could deny someone’s testimony might receive a different answer.
Moroni 10:4
“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”
Lets look at the Questions asked by Cardon.
Could you deny America exists?
Well given the vast number of testimonies from a vast number of sources, from people from all different ages and backgrounds and media too – no, we cannot deny America exists.
Can we deny the testimony of the people in the bible?
Well again – Within the pages of the bible are found a vast number of testimonies from people of different backgrounds and cultures, from different generations, some, thousands of years apart and some hundreds of miles apart, all agreeing with one another. Not only that there is a great number of Prophecies, in the Bible which were fulfilled. Many of these very detailed prophecies were about the coming messiah, given hundreds of years before he was born.
Here are just a few prophecies about Jesus…
For example, the Old Testament prophesied that He would be born of the seed of Abraham (Gen. 12:1-3, 22:18), of the tribe of Judah (Gen 49:10), and in the lineage of David (2 Samuel 7:12f).Micah 5:2 said that He would be born in Bethlehem, that He’d come while the temple was still standing (Malachi 3:1), that He would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), that He would open the eyes of the blind, unstop the ears of the deaf, and cause the lame to walk (Isaiah 35:5-6), that He’d be rejected by His own people (Psalm 118:22; 1 Peter 2:7). The Scriptures foretold the precise time in history when He would die (Daniel 9:24-26), how He would die (Psalm 22:16-18, Isaiah 53;Zechariah 12:10), and that He would rise from the dead (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27-32).
And we’re not just taking their word for it, even though we could, given the number of testimonies about God the Father and Jesus in the Bible all corroborating one another. We could take their word for it but we don’t have to just rely on their word because of all the Archaeological evidence that has been found, the places mentioned in the Bible that we can see for ourselves today, the people mentioned in the bible who Archaeologists and historians have confirmed existed. And above all else the effect this gospel message has had on society. History is filled with the effects of Christianity exploding on to the scenes.
Nelson Glueck, who appeared on the cover of Time magazine and who is considered one of the greatest archaeologists ever, wrote: “No archeological discovery has ever controverted [overturned] a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries.” [Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert, p. 31.]
(For More evidence on the reliability of the Bible check out…
We showed him the Book of Mormon and taught him of its purpose. We testified that it was true and that God still communicates through living prophets today.”
Now can the Book of Mormon really compare to the Bible?
I’m afraid not…
We do not have the Book of Mormon plates to confirm their existence
We have no archaeological evidence to confirm the existence of any of the people or places spoken of in the Book of Mormon. not one place, not one coin, not one person has ever positively been identified and confirmed by any outside source. This is why there are no maps in the Book of Mormon.
We have no Archaeological evidence for any of the battles that took place in the Book of Mormon even though, evidence has been found for other historical battles that happened on a much smaller scale.
Additionally, there are numerous anachronisms in the Book of Mormon that archaeology tells us should not be there. In other words, not only isn’t the book supported by archaeology, it is actually contradicted by archaeology.
1 Nephi 2:8 speaks of a river that empties into the Red Sea. No river has ever been found to have emptied into the Red Sea. This demonstrates that the author of the book was not familiar with Middle Eastern geography. If the author of the Book of Mormon was truly from the land of Israel this mistake would not have been made.
2 Nephi 5:15 and several other references speak of the people working with steel. The methods used for producing steel were not discovered until hundreds of years later and were unknown in the America’s until its discovery by the Europeans. This passage is also interesting because this small band of people which may have contained 20 individuals built a temple “like unto Solomon’s”. According to 1 Kings 5:13-18 Solomon employed 30,000 laborers, 70,000 carriers, 80,000 stone cutters and 3,300 foremen, a total of 183,300 workers, to build the temple and it took them approximately seven years to finish the work. But amazingly Nephi builds a similar structure in no time with just his family members.
Enos 1:21 and other references mention horses. However, horses were not introduced on the American continents until the Spanish invasion.
Mosiah 21:27 says that the people possessed plates of ore. Ore is the rock from which metal is extracted. It is not a material from which anything can be made.
Alma 1:29 and other references speak of silk. Once again silk is unknown in the Americas until the coming of Europeans.
2 Nephi 10:3 mentions crucifixion. Crucifixion was developed by the Romans. It was completely unknown on the American continent. The word would have had no meaning to the people hearing it.
This is just a sampling of the many archaeological problems within the Book of Mormon.
DNA Evidence.
This is (or was,) part of the Book of Mormon, introduction…
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of the two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians
Mitochondrial DNA research has demonstrated that the American Indians are related to the inhabitants of Asia who probably crossed over into this continent across the Bering Strait into Alaska.
In response to this Evidence the LDS Church has changed the offending verse…
After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indian
There are no brackets, or foot notes to explain that this used to say something else, they simply changed it and if your new to the church you would never know it was there.
That leads onto another issue. Changes in the Book of Mormon, yes there are some, in fact many.
Some interesting changes…
In the 1981 printing of the “triple combination” A very important change was made. Previous editions of the Book of Mormon had said that in the last days the Indians “shall be a white and delightsome people.” (2 Nephi 30:6) In the new edition this has been altered to read that the Indians “shall be a pure and delightsome people.”. . .
First Book of Nephi, p.25 (1830): “Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.”
Today:1 Nephi 11:18: “…is the mother of the Son of God.”
First Book of Nephi, p.25 (1830):.”…behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!”
Today: 1 Nephi 11:21: “yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!”
Book of Alma, p.303; (1830): “yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable,.according to their wills..”Book of Mormon (1950):Alma 29:4:”yea, I know that he allotteth unto men [?].according to their wills.. ”
These are not just, spelling mistakes or grammar corrections these changes alter the meaning of the text and these are just a few examples there are many, many more.
So …
“The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible.” (The Book of Mormon, Intro,) … Sorry but it just doesn’t stand up to the test.
Recently there has been a really excellent book release called Unveiling Grace by Lynn Wilder. Lynn was an LDS member and during some of that time a BYU professor. In many years of reading many books of this kind this is easily one of the best. There is an excellent insight into Utah Mormon life, and the transition and struggles that many go through in leaving Mormonism and coming to Christ. This book is really worth a read. Also below is Lynn and her husband Michael sharing their story.
The book can be bought at Amazon UK and Amazon US as well as in many other bookstores.
For this review I am going to focus on the part of the chapter entitled Teachings of Lorenzo Snow and not look at the beginning of the chapter entitled From the Life of Lorenzo Snow. I have chosen to do this for two reasons: firstly, I feel that my role in writing this post is to address the differences between LDS teaching, belief and doctrine and Biblically-based Christian teaching, and secondly, I found that I had so much I wanted to deal with in the ‘teachings’ section that it seemed unnecessary to dwell on the other areas.
I would first like to look at this bold claim: “That Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and other ancient worthies had this religion successively, in a series of dispensations, we, as a people, verily believe. … Mormonism, in short, is the primitive Christian faith restored, the ancient Gospel brought back again.” I would like to know what evidence the LDS church has to substantiate such a claim. Their religion is based heavily on the idea of eternal families being sealed together in exclusive temple ceremonies. Through these ceremonies, people can progress along a path that can ultimately lead to godhood. These principles are not found in the accounts we have of Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses and they certainly do not resonate with the teachings, actions, life, death and resurrection of Jesus as contained in the New Testament. Neither do the epistles addressed to the early churches contain anything that can be described as Mormonism. No path to godhood, no salvation by “grace after all we can do”, no belief in one Prophet, seer and revelator overseeing and running one all-encompassing organisation, no Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods, no exclusive temple ceremonies, no obligation to pay ten per cent of all income to the prophet’s organisation. A claim such as the one above really ought to be backed up with evidence to support it.
In the paragraph following the one quoted above, we read of a kingdom being established where “light and intelligence shall be so generally diffused that it shall no longer be necessary for any man to say to his fellows, “Know ye the Lord, but all shall know him, from the least unto the greatest;” [see Jeremiah 31:34]”. Yet the Lord of this Kingdom, who should be so easy to identify, is in fact rather difficult to get a grasp of when we actually look in detail at LDS sources:
“Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven” (Brigham Young in ‘Journal of Discourses’, 1:50-51)
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.” (Alma 7:10) Please note that this verse not only incorrectly states the birthplace of Jesus, but also contradicts the previous quote.
Therefore, it does not appear clear that the teaching of ‘the Kingdom’ in relation to ‘the Lord’ is clear or consistent even with itself or with the Bible. So it would seem that the ‘light and intelligence’ brought about by the LDS church has not been helpful in aiding people to ‘know the Lord’.
This section of the chapter also refers to the prophecy made in Joel which states that “your sons and your daughters shall prophesy”. This is included to build a picture of what the ‘Kingdom’ that the LDS church is establishing is like. Old Testament scripture is being used here to try and legitimise LDS claims, yet to say that women in the LDS version of God’s kingdom can authoritatively ‘prophesy’ is ridiculous. That is the domain of a select few. That select few certainly contains no women!
Continuing the description of this kingdom, we read that “God has set up His Church and Kingdom on the earth for the benefit and blessing of the human family”. Yet, if that is the case, one has to wonder why God would let this kingdom fail so badly in Mormon eyes from the end of the era of the first apostles to Joseph Smith’s ‘first vision’ (a period of around 1700 years) if it were his intention to benefit and bless the human family. The words of Jesus in Matthew 16:18 (I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it) and 24:35 (Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away) should be enough to make it clear that God’s intentions were that his truth and church would not fall away or be removed from the earth and therefore the notion of a restoration is not something that God would ever have deemed necessary. The chapter goes on to say: “Now talk about this kingdom being destroyed! … Why, you might as well try to pluck the stars from the firmament or the moon or the sun from its orbit! It never can be accomplished, for it is the work of the Almighty.” Mormon teaching would suggest that the church established by Jesus did not even last as long as the LDS church has currently lasted, so how could any Mormon have confidence in the durability of their own organisation when it makes such a claim about the New Testament church established by Jesus himself? The Kingdom of God seems to be a pretty flimsy concept in the LDS understanding.
A little further on is a statement that clears up any doubts about what the LDS church teaches about the Bible: “This Church will stand, because it is upon a firm basis. It is not from man; it is not from the study of the New Testament or the Old Testament”. It would appear that for Mormons there is nothing secure about God’s revealing of his nature, identity and personality in either the Old or New Testament. For an organisation that claims to be Christian, and the only 100% authentic version of Christianity at that, this is quite a bold claim regarding the importance of using the New Testament to understand and come to know the person of Jesus! The chapter continues to explain that the LDS church has, “come directly from the Lord. The Lord has shown it to us by the revealing principle of the Holy Spirit of light”. Really? So you can ignore anything the New Testament has to say about Jesus and instead trust in a religion:
based upon a book written by a man using a rock in a hat to tell him what words should be written,
which contains a book that is built upon a provable lie (the claim that the papyrus used for the translation of the Book of Abraham had writings on it which were written by Abraham himself),
which has contradictory teachings on the nature of God: “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which is revealed to them, and which God revealed to me — namely that Adam is our father and God” – Brigham Young, and then: “We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some General Authorities of past generations, such, for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine” – Spencer Kimball. Contradictory positions could also be provided here for the LDS position of polygamy and the rights of black people to hold ‘the priesthood’.
We then read that the Lord “opens to us the secrets of the celestial kingdom” yet neither Jesus nor the early church leaders teach anything about the celestial kingdom or mention anything that would even support the notion of meriting the right to live with God in heaven after we die on the basis of our own actions. In fact the exclusivity of access to the celestial kingdom being through temple attendance, participation and worthiness is in direct contradiction with the Bible. Consider these verses:
“Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom” Matthew 27:50-51
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” 1 Timothy 2:3-6
“For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.” Ephesians 2:14-22
These verses demonstrate clearly that the notion of ‘secrets of the celestial kingdom’ flies directly in the face of the New Testament understanding, and therefore original Christianity’s understanding, of what the teachings, suffering, life, death and resurrection of Jesus mean for us.
The chapter continues: “Our work is … to become more and more perfect as we advance in years”. This is a nonsense. One cannot become ‘more perfect’. Perfection ultimately means a state that can not be improved upon. So to suggest that people can become more and more perfect is impossible. It is also unbiblical to say that any improvement in our condition is down to ‘our work’. Our work is as “filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6) and the good work that goes on in the heart of a believer is not attributable to the believer, but rather to God: “he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:” (Philippians 1:6)
A little later on, the chapter discusses the commitment and sacrifices expected of LDS members to the cause of their faith or the building up of their ‘kingdom’. Doctrine and Covenants section 98 is quoted here: “I will prove you in all things, whether you will abide in my covenant, even unto death, that you may be found worthy; for if ye will not abide in my covenant, ye are not worthy of me.” Again, we have here an example of the God of Mormonism telling his people that by sticking to the rules, they will then be worthy of him, and that if they fail to do this, they are not worthy of him. Yet we know from the Bible that none is worthy of God (Romans 3:23) and that one is only ‘made worthy’ or justified by the free gift of grace (Romans 3:24) rather than by trying to earn worthiness.
Continuing on in the chapter, LDS believers are reminded that they “are engaged in the work of God. The prospects before us are glorious” and they are then told that they “may increase in knowledge and power”. I am saddened that these appeals to glory of the self and the acquisition of power for one’s self are being made. Is all the effort that this chapter is asking LDS members to make being done for such purposes? Again I turn to Romans to demonstrate the Bible’s view of whose glory we should be concerned with, “if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” (Romans 8:17-18) Therefore, believers inherit God’s righteousness and glory, it is not about a path of progression to our own state of godhood where the power and glory are our own. As that famous prayer makes clear: “thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever”.
The conclusion of the chapter builds on this theme of sacrifice in the cause of the LDS church: “I would not give the ashes of a rye straw for any religion that was not worth living for and that was not worth dying for; and I would not give much for the man that was not willing to sacrifice his all for the sake of his religion.” I find this statement problematic since there are a great many people, from a wide variety of religions, who have suffered and died due to their commitment to a sincerely held faith. Such events reveal the depth of that person’s faith and not the veracity of their religion. The theme of persecution is a recurrent one in LDS teaching materials and most LDS are well versed in the notion of being a ‘peculiar people’ and suffering for standing out in this way. It is certain that the early LDS church members underwent some terrible ordeals at certain times and I would not want to make light of that, however, it is worth pointing out that often the people were suffering for their leaders’ practice of polygamy, or in response to a perception that the communal, close-knit Mormon way of life at that time represented a threat in terms of the LDS potentially being a political bloc, or a closed-off unit of industry, productivity and cultural isolation. Let’s not forget why Joseph Smith was even in Carthage Jail in the first place. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the treatment meted out to the early LDS, I think it would be a misrepresentation to suggest that they were suffering for their faith in Christ. Christians this very day are being persecuted around the world for following Jesus and for refusing to renounce their faith. Their struggles are well-documented here: http://www.releaseinternational.org/ Someone who truly suffered for Christ, and whose book I would recommend as probably the most inspirational thing I have ever read outside of scripture, is Richard Wurmbrand. He was a Christian pastor in Romania during the era of communism. He was imprisoned and horrifically abused for many years but never lost his faith. His actions and life speak of a true devotion to Christ and his actions were imbued with total trust in the loving role of Jesus in his life. To conclude my review I will leave you with his words:
“I have seen Christians in Communist prisons with fifty pounds of chains on their feet, tortured with red-hot iron pokers, in whose throats spoonfuls of salt had been forced, being kept afterward without water, starving, whipped, suffering from cold–and praying with fervor for the Communists. This is humanly inexplicable! It is the love of Christ, which was poured out in our hearts.”
Well its that time of the year again, I think for me general conference has always seemed a bit of a boring prospect. Nothing really doctrinal taught anymore, a load of guys being repeatedly told not to look at pornography and so on.
The first talk is from President Monson, announcing that the LDS Church membership has now topped 15 million worldwide, I think being so upfront with this is likely intended to be a slap in the face to this idea that the LDS Church is really struggling with numbers. However it has been estimated that only around 30% of that number are active. The reality is many people that leave do not remove their details from the Church records and so are still classed as a Mormon Member even if they have not believed it for years. Also all children under the age of 8 born of Mormon families are included in this number even though they are not baptized, see here. So while this new membership number may satisfy the faithful that would never dream of digging a little more into it, all is not as it sounds.
As well there are now 80000 missionaries worldwide. This is an impressive number, in years gone by I believe the number of missionaries was going down, this is well and truly not the case now. More than ever you are likely to come across Missionaries in your home area, this is a great witnessing opportunity for Christians that I hope many will take.
The third talk was from Elder Ulisses Soares of the 70.
Interestingly he quoted Moroni 10:32 which is a verse from the book of Mormon often quoted by people like myself to show the extent of the expectations on Mormons, it says this:
32 Yea, acome unto Christ, and be bperfected in him, and cdeny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and dlove God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may beeperfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
The underlined part here is key, when you deny yourself of all ungodliness, His grace then becomes sufficient. The speaker here misquotes this a little and skips the “then His grace is sufficient part” and skips to the grace. However the message in this talk still gives the message of the verse. Shortly afterward Soares says “It is our duty to try and be perfect, improve each day,”Quoting Lorenzo Snow.
For me this is the common issue of the Mormon Church placing impossible expectations on its members, literally telling them to strive for perfection. Studies have shown that Utah has the highest rate of depression in the US. Is it not at all possible Mormons that the 68% Mormon Populated state having the countries highest rate of depression is not down to being constantly told how perfect you need to be?
Biblically we see this in Jeremiah 31, speaking of the New Testament Covenant to come:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
If you are truly in Christ then your desires will be changed to the point where you naturally desire to serve Him. You wont need to be constantly told to be perfect, you wont need to sit with a bishop once a year going through a checklist to see if you are worthy enough to go into Gods Holy temple, by virtue of being in Christ you will be worthy and righteous to be in Gods presence always, because He lives in you.
Hebrews 10
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
You enter the Holy place which is no longer a building anyway, by the blood of Jesus, not by your so called, impossible to attain anyway “perfection”.So here is a challenge, at your next temple recommend interview, quote this verse and say its by the blood of Jesus that you are worthy to go into the temple. If that’s not enough for them, your in the wrong Church.
There is lots that I could say about Carole Stephens talk too, but for the sake of time and not bombarding you all too much, I will skip to the talk thats got everyone talking. I may come back to that another time.
So finally we heard from President Dieter F. Uchtdorf 2nd Counsellor of the First presidency, meaning he is the third highest guy in the LDS Church.
Now as an Evangelical Anti-Mormon as we are often called, I am not sure if I am allowed to like a Mormon leader, but either way I do like Uchdorf, He strikes me as a genuinely good man that is doing what he sees as the best thing for his fellow LDS members, and that comes through a lot in this talk. For anyone reading this who has not watched this session I would genuinely ask that you at least watch or listen to this talk. You can find it here.
This talk has been picked up on in the New York Times, Because Uchtdorf makes a significant admission. He said this:
“We openly acknowledge that in nearly 200 years of church history — along with an uninterrupted line of inspired, honorable and divine events — there have been some things said and done that could cause people to question,”
It does not take much internet searching to see that the Mormon Church is losing many members right now because of the historical issues of Mormonism. This is a significant admission that says actually there are things that migh cause people to question. This is good, because hopefully those that are in relationship or contact with ex Mormons but are still faithful Mormons themselves will see that there is some validity to why they left. As well as this Uchtdorf also said something which I thought was very significant and very positive.
“However there are some who leave the church they once loved. One might ask if the gospel is so wonderful why might anyone leave, sometimes we assume its because they have been offended or lazy or sinful, actually it is not that simple. In fact there is not just one reason that applies to the variety of situations.”
For years I have heard the assumption again and again that these are the reasons that people would leave the Mormon Church. I think Uchtdorf saying this will break down a lot of barriers between ex Mormons and Current Mormons. While this is likely his intention with the goal of drawing people back to Mormonism, I would hope this opens up a dialogue both ways., and could also help heal the relationships of many families that have been torn apart as a result of people leaving Mormonism.
Going back to the admission of the admission of the Church doing things in the past that could cause people to question. The issue I still have with this is that these things are totally unnamed. There is still the breathing room left for LDS Apologists to say that any and every reason someone might question Mormonism is still invalid. There is no way of knowing from this what Uchtdorf sees as questionable and what is not. I appreciate that there is not the time for this in his talk but in a way this seems like progress in the Church admitting its faults but in another way there has been no admission at all. Even in the last month we have seen Denver Snuffer excommunicated from the LDS Church because he wrote a book detailing what he sees many of these questionable things to be. So while Uchtdorf can say there are questionable things and be applauded, we see another Mormon detail what he sees these things to be and get excommunicated. The ridiculous position of the LDS Church hiding from its history still very much stands.
On a more amusing note, a podcast called Infants on Thrones recorded a 9 minute episode detailing what they think Uchtdorf should have said in the interests of being more honest, check that out here. Its very good.
Finally Uchtdorf said one other thing that really interested me,
“Faith is to hope for things which are not seen, but which are true (Alma 32:21),” he said. “Therefore, please, first doubt your doubts, before you doubt your faith.”
As I said right at the beginning of this article the Mormon Church is on damage control right now, you can expect all the more of this in time to come, the message that you should doubt yourself and your perceptions and interpretations of information you might find out, before you doubt the Church. For many this is simply not sufficient anymore, this is the same Church whose leaders have said this:
In the Imporovement Era, June 1945 contains the following quote as part of a Ward Teachers’ message:
When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.
Dont let this be the case for you, think and question and make your own decisions. As a Christian I know that doubts can happen in all faiths including mine so I am not saying that Uchtdorfs comment has no validity, however don’t have blind faith, test all things hold fast to that which is good (1 Thess 5:21) and search the scriptures to see if what your leaders are telling you is true. (Acts 17:11) Even the Apostle Paul had to pass the test of the Old Testament with his teaching, do your leaders pass the test of the New Testament?
To finish here is a great story of an LDS Missionary that took that challenge
This is a great couple of videos for anyone that has not seen this. Sandra Tanner who is actually a great, great grandaughter of Brigham Young and is also a co-founder of one of the earliest Christian Ministries to Mormons, shares her story.
The Blog Of Mormon 