Tag Archives: Mormon Jesus

General Conference, April 2013 Priesthood Session Review, by Stephen Livings.

2012-10-3060-president-thomas-s-monson-590x332-ldsorg-articleThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints claims to be the restored Christian church and “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased.” (D&C 1:30 – see context here)

It would seem likely then that a twice yearly conference full of teaching by its leaders to its members, and freely available via the internet around the world, would be full of teaching based on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.  After all, a Christian is one who professes the Christian faith and the definition of Christianity is “the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ”.  (Oxford Dictionary of English)  So do the teachings provided at the LDS church’s general conference of April 2013 reflect such a religion?  Do we see the person and teachings of Jesus to the fore in the talks given?  Well, here we will look at the Priesthood session recorded on 6 April 2013.

There were six talks given during this two hour session.  These were given by: Robert D Hales, Tad R Callister, David L. Beck, Dieter F. Uchtdorf (Second counsellor in the First Presidency), Henry B Eyring (First counsellor in the first presidency) and Thomas S Monson (President and Prophet of the church).  The last three speakers are the most important leaders in the Mormon religion.

Having listened to all six talks, a predominant theme that emerged was that of the importance of missionary work.  Throughout the session many anecdotes emphasising the value of missionary work were given.  This was particularly notable in the talks given by Henry Eyring, Thomas Monson and Tad Callister.  What was interesting about these tales of missionary work was their focus on two key things.  Firstly, the language used was of bringing people into the community or kingdom, and also sharing the gospel with others.  The language used was not the language of ‘teaching people about Jesus’, ‘developing faith and trust in Jesus’ or ‘coming to know the Lord’, nor was any kind of an explanation of what ‘the gospel’ actually is put forward in order to clarify what this would be.  It seems striking that the mission of the only true and living church does not appear to be about bringing people to Christ.  Secondly, the talks that were heavily focused on missionary work referred to the personal benefit of serving a mission, rather than the service it provides to others.  Tad Callister alludes to how it is a time of increased spirituality and development of leadership skills for the missionary, and Thomas Monson claims that for missionaries, ‘dedicated missionary service returns a dividend of eternal joy which extends throughout mortality and into eternity.’  Surely a mission is a commitment to bringing others to know God, not an opportunity to store up ‘brownie points’ for the next life.

Throughout the session, a great emphasis was placed on what the work of priesthood holders is.  Robert Hales listed a great many tasks that members must do in order to be ready to do God’s work:  “staying on the gospel path of covenants, commandment and ordinances, protects us and prepares us to do God’s work in this world.”   He then explained that by keeping the word of wisdom, “paying tithing, studying the scriptures, receive baptism and confirmation, live with the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, partake of the sacrament worthily, obey the law of chastity, prepare for and receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, and make sacred covenants in the temple, then we are prepared to serve.  In the temple we are prepared and promise to live the law of consecration.  Able young men, seek to live this law by seeking a mission call.”

He then goes on to explain that this path will lead the young men he is addressing, “to go forward to the highest covenant in life: to many, it will be to be sealed in the temple and begin an eternal family.”  This is the path Mormons are expected to follow.  Remember, this is claimed to be the one, true church of Jesus.  Did Jesus ever teach that the highest covenant in life is to begin an eternal family?  No, our Lord Jesus taught: “And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free… If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”  (John 8:32 & 36).   If you were to carry out perfectly everything in Robert Hales’ list, would you feel as though the truth had made you free?  In the verses quoted, Jesus is saying that the Son can set us free from our sin.  In Mormonism it is through fulfilling the roles and duties expected of you that you can enter God’s glory (i.e. being freed from our sin).  Did Jesus teach people to give themselves, their time, talents, and everything that they own to a church, a man-made organisation (i.e. the Law of consecration)?  No, rather Jesus taught:  “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  This is the first and great commandment.  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”  (Matthew 22:37-40)  It is also worth noting that here Jesus is openly preaching to all that these are God’s commands.  In Mormonism, the law of consecration is a promise or covenant that is made in secret in the temple.

I would like to move on shortly to address some aspects of Thomas Monson’s talk, but before doing so, I wanted to point out one last thing I noticed during Robert Hales’ talk.  Near the very end he said: “When the chief priests accuse him before Key er, Caiaphas, Joseph wisely and courageously refused to respond to untruth and he held his peace.”  (italics added for emphasis)  I had to listen to that sentence twice because I was stunned that a man claiming to hold very high office, with priesthood authority, in the only true and living church (the church restored by Jesus Christ himself) would make such a slip; especially without correcting himself.  I will not comment further on that point but found it fascinating.

Thomas Monson presented what he called a formula containing four points for being successful missionaries.

The first of these is to search the scriptures.  He went on to explain that church curricula are based on these.  However, it was revealing that during this conference session, the leaders who spoke generally used anecdotes to make a point about how church members should live their lives much more frequently than they used scriptures.  Surely, as Christians, these leaders should have been focusing on the lives and teachings of people in scripture, especially Jesus himself, when teaching their church members.   As leaders of the one true church on the face of the earth, surely these men would wish to share their love of God’s holy word in order to demonstrate the importance of ‘searching the scriptures’.  Time spent quoting the Bible and then teaching directly from it was extremely limited.

The second point was to ‘plan your life with purpose’.   This was broken down into ‘school, mission and marriage’, with military service being a possible fourth addition.  This appears to be a ‘one-size fits all’ life-plan.  It also appears to be rather self-focused to have a checklist approach to plan life in this way.  Jesus doesn’t desire us to be self-focused, rather he taught: “Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.  He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.  If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour”  (John 12:24-26)  Our lives are to be lost to ourselves and given over to love of God and service of others, not reduced to a mere formulaic checklist of life-goals to be met.

Point three was to teach the truth with testimony.  This testimony was defined as:

Firstly, sharing the true nature of the Godhead.  In Mormon teaching this means that the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three distinct and separate beings or gods.  However, different LDS scriptures tell us different things about the nature of God.  The Book of Mormon has a great many verses that support the traditional doctrine of the Trinity, one of the clearest being in 3 Nephi 11.  Yet when we turn to the Pearl of Great Price we see an opposing view in Abraham 5, which has ‘the Gods’ sharing the work of the creation.  Staying in the Pearl of Great Price however, we can also see a version of the creation where it is carried out by one god (see Moses 2).  So how can LDS members be expected to teach about the true nature of the Godhead when the teachings in their scripture differ so greatly? And this is before adding in any references to LDS leaders who have taught the Adam-God doctrine or the doctrine that men can become gods and that God was once a man. This is a fundamental area that distinguishes Mormons from most other people who call themselves Christian.  The Bible teaches that “I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,” (Isaiah 46:9) and “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58)  and “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” (2 Corinthians 3:17)  These and a great many other scriptures form the foundation for the doctrine of the Trinity.  There is a clear and fundamental difference between Biblical teaching on the nature of God compared with the varied teachings  of the LDS church.

Secondly, a testimony should include a witness to the Book of Mormon.  Much could be said about the historical validity or otherwise of this book, but this blog entry is lengthy enough (!) so I will not address this point.  Suffice it to say that anyone wishing to explore the origins of the writing of the Book of Mormon need only search the internet for first-hand accounts of how it was created.

Thomas Monson then went on to say that a testimony should include the ‘glorious and beautiful truths contained in the plan of salvation’.  In this plan, our spirits existed in a pre-mortal state.  Yet we know that we are created beings and not eternal in this sense.  1 Corinthians 15:45 explains that “Adam was made a living soul”.  For him to have been made in this way means that he did not live prior to being made, therefore there was no pre-mortal existence.  In the pre-existence of Mormonism, Jesus and Lucifer had differing plans for how souls could be saved and then progress eternally.  Lucifer’s plan differed in that he would ensure that everyone would progress, thereby taking away free choice.  The plan offered by Jesus enabled us to have free choice.  Those spirits who followed Jesus were allowed to come to Earth, and those who followed Lucifer were cast out of heaven.

Some Mormon leaders have also used the actions of those spirits at this time to teach the following belief: “Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes.” (Bruce R. McConkie: Mormon Doctrine)  The next step in this plan is this earthly life.  According to the LDS, this is where we prove ourselves worthy to reach the celestial kingdom (spend eternity with God and become gods ourselves).  This teaching is put most succinctly here:  “They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.  They will become gods.  They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.  They will receive a fullness of joy.  They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have – all power, glory, dominion and knowledge.”

These words are taken from the current LDS teaching manual ‘Gospel Principles’ and sum up what a Mormon’s ultimate destiny can be.  These are the reasons for their striving in their temple work, mission work and church callings.  Such requirements are listed here: I do not wish to dwell further on a Biblical response to this, as I will cover this further down.

Thomas Monson’s fourth point in his formula was to serve the Lord with love.  He here refers to qualities listed in D & C chapter 4 which are remarkably similar to those found in the Bible in 2 Peter 1.

Finally, in the last thirty seconds of his talk, Thomas Monson, who claims to lead the one true Christian church upon the face of the earth, refers directly to Jesus as the Son of God, the Saviour and Redeemer.  This is the only point during his nineteen minute talk where he tells us something about Jesus.  Yet even here, nothing is taught about Jesus.  There is no sense of a deep relationship of closeness and love between Jesus and his ‘living prophet’ since he has not dwelt on any episode in the life of Jesus, nor taught about the significance of his life, suffering, death or resurrection.  Isn’t that the least one should expect to hear from a Christian leader?

Lastly, I would like to refer to the talk of Dieter Uchtdorf.  I found his talk to be the most interesting.  He was exploring some of what he believes to be titles of priesthood holders.  He gave four.  These were: Son of Heavenly Father, Disciples, Healer of souls, Heirs to all that he has.  I believe a Christian would say that all believers can give themselves these titles since these titles define what it means to have come to know Christ and be saved by him.  Yet here Dieter Uchtdorf is suggesting that they are titles that can be given only to those with the LDS priesthood.  Sadly, this is to misunderstand the term ‘priesthood’.  In Old Testament times those who held the priesthood could enter the temple to make sacrifices for the sins of the people.  They were those who held this authority.  These sacrifices had to be repeated, since people continued to sin.  However, in the New Testament, the book of Hebrews explains that for those who have faith in Christ, this priesthood role is no longer required: “they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:  But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore”  (Hebrews 7:23-28)  Therefore it is clear, the concept of a priesthood or priesthoods is now incorrect since we have Jesus to intercede on our behalf.

I wish to dwell in particular to Dieter Uchtdorf’s last title: “Heirs to all that he has.”  He begins this part of his talk by quoting verses 16 and 17 from Romans 8 which state: “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:   And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.”  However, Mr Uchtdorf does not provide the reference to these Bible verses, nor does he provide a scriptural context for them.  Rather, he then goes on to quote D & C 84 (again without providing a reference or a context).  The verses he mentions in D & C 84 talk of worthy males receiving the two priesthoods (Aaronic and Melchizedek) and then magnifying their callings in them, thereby receiving ‘all that my father hath’.  Does this passage from Mormon scripture fit with the verses quoted from Romans 8?  The first part of the answer lies in the context of what we have just read from Hebrews, namely that ‘the two priesthoods’ are not needed since Christ has become our high priest.  Secondly, we need to see what Romans 8 was really saying.  Let us look at it in more depth.  The first two verses of the chapter tell us that those who are ‘in Christ Jesus’ are no longer under condemnation because Christ has freed them from the law of sin and death.  If they are no longer condemned by the law then they are now children of God (v.16) and heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ (v.17).  This is to say that since we have accepted Christ, He has made us right with God through his suffering, and therefore we will also share in His glory.  The consequences that flow out of this are explained in the last few verses of the chapter.  Verse 32 is key: “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?”  This verse refutes the Mormon notion that Uchtdorf refers to in D & C 84, that it is through fulfilling the ‘priesthood’ duties that the LDS will share in the Father’s glory.  Uchtdorf says that it is “worth all our efforts in life.” and “you will grow and develop until you reach the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.  Then you will be prepared to inherit with Christ everything that the father has.”  But Romans 8:32 says that God will freely give us all things, not through completing a checklist of command, covenants, duties, etc.  Besides, to God: “all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags”  (Isaiah 64:6) and “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23)  Therefore even our best ever efforts to be a ‘worthy’ follower of Christ would fall below God’s standard.

The chapter ends gloriously with the truth that God will not abandon those he loves: “we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”  Thus it is clear, our works will not bring us this inheritance as joint heirs with Christ.  It is Christ’s work and his glory.

This, to me, is the tragedy of Mormonism.  Its teachings lead its followers to believe they must work and work to attain salvation/exaltation/glory/godhood, yet the Bible makes it plain that to those who truly believe, the Lord will save and make them joint heirs with Christ and they will not be abandoned.  Consequently, we are free of the consequences of our sin and called to serve God out of love:  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” (Ephesians 2:8-10)

A Different Jesus?

In the Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 25:26 says: And we atalk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we bprophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our cchildren may know to what source they may look for a dremission of their sins.

On Mormonism 101 a recent section on the Mormon Newsroom website stating Mormons beliefs, it says this about Jesus.

1. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and the Son of our loving Heavenly Father

Latter-day Saints believe God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to save all mankind from their sins (see John 3:16). God is a loving Heavenly Father who knows His children individually, hears and answers their prayers, and feels compassion toward them. Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, are two separate beings but along with the Holy Ghost (Spirit) are one in will, purpose and love.

Latter-day Saints worship Jesus Christ as their Savior and Redeemer. He is central to the lives of Church members. They accept His grace and mercy; they seek to follow His example by being baptized (see Matthew 3:13-17), praying in His holy name (see Matthew 6:9-13), partaking of the sacrament (communion) (see Luke 22:19-20), doing good to others (see Acts 10:38) and bearing witness of Him through both word and deed (see James 2:26).

Yet despite what these sources say, Christians worldwide see the Jesus that Mormons believe in as a different Jesus to the bible. What I want to do in this article is look at the background to the LDS view on Jesus compared to the Biblical view, focusing particularly on these 3 areas.

  • The Nature of Christ.
  • The Glory of Christ.
  • The Sufficiency of Christ.

The Nature of Christ

Jesus is as evangelicals believe a part of the Trinity, fully God yet one of the 3 persons that make up the God of the bible. I will spend some time here looking at the biblical evidence for Jesus being God, also looking at His pre earth nature, and the LDS view of His nature compared with biblical statements on this.

So Philippians 2:5-11 says:

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So we see Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God,  Jesus existed in the form of God and then emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant and being found in the likeness of men.

Jesus was equal to the Father, as well as this we see in Colossians 1:16 that all things were made by Him (which is also said in John 1:3, saying all things that were made, were made by Him)  and for Him. What does that for mean?

We see throughout the bible that God has created humanity for His glory, we exist for His enjoyment over ours.

Isaiah 43:7 says

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

So if we are made for Gods glory, and we are made by and for Christ, then we are made for Christs glory if He is on an equal level with the Father meaning He is God.

Now I will get on more to the glory of Christ in the next section however in seeing something of the significance of the glory of Christ we get to the heart of who Christ is by nature as in the Old Testament God says this:

Isaiah 42:8

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

God will not give His glory to another, hold that thought for later.

In the LDS view we see a difference from the start, my understanding of this view is that Christ was the first to be born of our heavenly parents in the pre-existence in heaven. Christ being the first to be born was given a God like status as a result and He is the example of what we as the spirit children born after Christ can recieve ourselves in terms of glory and exaltation. We will not necessarily be saviours, though there is some belief amongst some LDS that God the Father was a saviour on another planet and that Christ is doing the same on His road to exaltation and that maybe we will do the same later.

However staying on point the general LDS view is that Christ had to come to earth to live out His plan of salvation to receive His full exaltation to be a god, as well as being our saviour in the process.

BYU Professor Robert Millet said this: (BYU is a Mormon Church owned college in Provo Utah)

“Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of God the Father and thus the recipient of the birthright of the royal family. As such, and in that premortal realm, he was the Elder Brother of all of the spirit sons and daughters of the Father(A different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter Day saints, p.20)

Also in an LDS manual:

“Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven” (Gospel Principles 1997, p.11).

So according to this view we all have the same background and start in existence as Christ, we existed eternally as intelligences and later gained our Spirit bodies in heaven,  however He was simply first, and was chosen to be the Savior (Abraham 3:27-28, LDS Scripture)

This massively goes against the Biblical view of where Christ came from and where we came from, here’s why:

John 6:46 says Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

No one has seen the Father except Him who is of God, what does that mean He is of God?

Genesis 3:19 says In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

This verse says for dust we are, and dust we will return, this on a very natural level talks about our origin, being of the earth, meaning we are created and came into being on the earth. However to take away any more doubt here is what Jesus says.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Jesus Himself says He is from above, we are from below, we are of the world He is not of this world, why is this? Because we see in John 6:46 He is of God, we see in Philippians 2 that He came directly from the Father whom He is the only man to have seen, and cast aside His exalted position to lower Himself to take the form of us, however we are of the world, we have not seen the Father, we come from the Earth.

Jesus is utterly unique in His nature and is the only one who can claim to have come from and seen the Father, as He is from everlasting. (Micah 5:2) We are finite contingent beings, dependent on God for our existence and are by no means of the same nature of Jesus only born of our Spirit parents a little later.

The Glory of Christ.

This is another area where we dramatically see differences with the biblical and LDS view.

According to the LDS view Jesus was exalted as a result of His work on the earth and gained much more glory and status as a god as a result of what He did in His time on the earth.

10th LDS Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith said this:

“CHRIST GAINED FULNESS AFTER RESURRECTION. The Savior did not have a fulness at first, but after he received his body and the resurrection all power was given unto him both in heaven and in earth. Although he was a God, even the Son of God, with power and authority to create this earth and other earths, yet there were some things lacking which he did not receive until after his resurrection. In other words he had not received the fulness until he got a resurrected body, and the same is true with those who through faithfulness become sons of God. Our bodies are essential to the fulness and the continuation of the seeds forever” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:33)

 Jesus gained a fulness after His resurrection, this leads to a justifiable question, in that did Jesus actually sacrifice anything by coming to the earth then? Was it humility? This discussion in Shawn Mccraney’s book “I was a born again Mormon” illustrates this.

“Several years ago, a close friend who was LDS called me at my home to ask a question.

“All right,” he said rather abruptly, “Ive been thinking about this for a while, and I want to hear your views. What was the sacrifice of Jesus?”

“Other than his life?” I asked somewhat sarcastically.

“What was the sacrifice?” he repeated. “Describe it to me.”

This friend was not aware of my spiritual rebirth and was still under the impression that I subscribed to the LDS idea of Jesus. He had agreed, however, in a previous conversation that the true sacrifice must entail giving up something of greater value for something lesser, otherwise the exchange would simply be an opportunity.

“Well,” I replied, “I suppose in the LDS context of Jesus, there was none.”

“Exactly!” he excitedly replied. “Jesus came to earth and got a body just like us, right?”

“Right”

“And getting a body is a blessing, right?”

“According to the plan “yes.”

“So His coming to the earth waesn’t a sacrifice,” he concluded.

“And Jesus lived like all men live for most of His life, except He was able to avoid sin completely, right? Now that isn’t a sacrifice because we believe sin is never good, so by living without it, He only benefited himself, right?”

“Go on,” I said, excited to hear where this was going to end up.

“Then He begins his mission, right? Yes, He was without wealth, possessions, or a home; but this was only for a few years right?”

“Okay,” I replied with a laugh. “So the sacrifice was in His suffering and death for all humankind?”

“How can that be?” he snapped. “I agree that He suffered, but most of His mission was filled with people falling all over themselves to touch Him, hanging out with His friends and doing miracles. It was only at the end that He really endured the big-time pain.”

“But imagine the pain,” I interjected.

“I’m not claiming He didn’t suffer. He did. More than we will ever know and maybe in some dimension that we can’t explain. And I’m not saying He didn’t experience undeserved pain to boot. But tell me this, who wouldn’t go through all that suffering for a few days if they knew they would have all the glory, power, riches, and majesty forever and ever once the misery was over?”

And here we start to see the infinitely significant difference between the LDS view of Jesus and the biblical one. Look again at this passage in Philippians 2.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I am going to use this section as my argument for the biblical view, I will go through the underlined parts and explain what I am trying to say, referencing elsewhere as needed.

1, Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hold that thought on the form of God for the next point. In the second half of this we see that He thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Imagine if I took some money from your pocket would that be robbery? Of course it would as it was not mine, but what if I took something that was mine.  See this scene from one of the best movies ever.

We see here Bruce Wayne getting caught in a supposed robbery, He says I am not a thief, the Policeman says tell that to the owner, who is the owner…..Its Bruce Wayne, did he commit robbery? No as it was His to take. Equality with God was in Jesus posession, He had to cast it aside to come to earth, this was not the start of a promotion process for Him.

 2, Took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Here is where we see another massive contrast with the LDS view of God the Father. According to the LDS view the Father has a body of flesh and bones as a result of His time as a man, however here we see a distinction between the form of God and the form of man.

Genesis 1:26-27 is one of they key places LDS theology draws its support for this view.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The LDS view is that if we are in Gods image then God must have a body of flesh and bones as we do. This makes sense on the surface but if you read straight after the image mention you see its according to His likeness. We are in His image according to His likeness. A key aspect of Gods character is rulership over all things. We see straight after we are told we are in His image according to likeness that we will rule over the animals of the earth.

We see this turned around later in Genesis 5:3

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

In the case of Adam having a son we see he is in his likeness after his image, the New American Standard Bible puts it like this “his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.”

We see a reversal of how God made us, in His likeness according to His image, as they were of the same image.

Going back to Philippians 2 we see a clear distinction between the form of God and the form of man, here is a logical syllogism for this.

  • Jesus before coming to earth existed in the form of God.
  • When coming to earth He took the form of a bondservant – Man .
  • Therefore Gods form is different to that of man’s.

3, He humbled Himself.

This has kind of been covered above now so I will quickly say that the Biblical Jesus humbled Himself casting aside His equality with God to take a lesser form to go through a totally undeserved punishment. The LDS Jesus had a god like status but knew that getting a body and living out His plan of salvation with the suffering and all else involved would lead to more glory and power and spiritual riches than He ever had before, this was a move that worked for His self interest as much as anything else.

4, Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

And finally here is what is likely the LDS response would be to what I am saying, well Bobby here it is Jesus was highly exalted and given the name above every name, it goes on to say that every knee would bow before Him, so therefore Christ must be more glorious now.
This I would say is partly right, however there is a difference between Jesus receiving more glory and being more equal with God, and being more like God in His nature.

Hebrews 12:2 says

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The God of the bible is a God that always seeks first His own glory in all acts He carries out, this glory is the primary and most satisfying source of joy to God and He does everything that He does in order that it might please Him.

Ephesians 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Philippians 2:13

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So God does what He does in us according to His good pleasure.

Isaiah 48:9-11 is where God gives the reason why He will not cut His constantly sinning people off.

9 For my name’s sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off. 10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

So where am I going with this? Jesus did what He did for the joy set before Him, what is that joy? It was the glory He would receive for Jesus is God in nature and equality so like the God of the Old Testament He acts for His glory. So therefore the Father happily gives Him this honour by giving Him the name above ALL names.

For us the name of Jesus is higher than all names, because it is only in the name of Jesus we can be saved (Acts 4:12) , and in honouring Jesus we are bringing glory to the Father, this is the Trinity fully at work. God the Spirit drawing people to Christ, the Father lifting up the Son and glorifying Him, to the glory of the Father.

So when Jesus is exalted and given this name above every name He is no more glorious in nature than before but totally glorified in His position before man as being the source of our salvation. So the joy that is set before Him is not His exaltation in nature but glory before man, that we might live in and enjoy this glory forever.

The Sufficiency of Christ.

So Jesus is totally God by nature and glory, so my final point bringing it back to us is that Christ is all we need eternally. As Gods joy is found in His glory so our joy eternally and in this life can be found in its fullness in His glory.

1 Peter 4:13 says

But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

When His glory is revealed we shall be made glad with exceeding joy, this is our eternal occupation coming to light here, Jesus in John 17:24 says

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

As far as I am aware the Mormon take on verses like this and others that talk of us sharing in His glory to mean that we will receive an equivalent glory of our own, and this is what sharing in Christ’s glory means.

However look at this prayer, what is Christ’s hope here, that we get to enjoy our own kingdom as a result of our successful progression and exaltation, or that we are to enjoy His glory and sharing in His glory means actually we get to be partakers in His glory in the sense of we will be looking at and glorifying Him, and the sharing is that we actually get to be with Him forever. Jesus desire was that we might see His glory, that He had before He came to the earth, this also sounds like we had not seen this glory before. Which would further support the view that we did not have a pre-existence in heaven as Mormonism teaches.

Moving  on Revelation 7:9 says.

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

This is the desire of God for His people, that we be with Him forever. In Philippians 1:21 Paul shares His desire to depart from this life and be with Christ as that is far better than living. A Mormons heart cry would be to stay longer and keep demonstrating by obeying the commandments that they might be worthy of receiving their exaltation, Paul just wanted to die and be with Christ , 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says this:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We will EVER be with the Lord, because He is sufficient for our eternity, nowhere do we see in the bible that we are to gain our own glory and exaltation and enjoy it with our family forever with Christ being the example of all we can achieve, there is in fact quite the opposite.

On a discussion online on facebook I saw these comments by an Ex-Mormon.

As a young man growing up in the church it was really hard for me at first to understand and except the role of Jesus. There was God the father and then there was Jesus my older Brother, who was also God some how because he was perfect.

Jesus got to play the part of God the Father in most of the stories in the scriptures, except when Jesus was actually here on Earth, then I guess the real God the Father had to play that part himself while Jesus was here on the Earth pretending to be one of us mortals.

I was a middle child groaning up. I had an older brother who seamed nearly perfect at times. He got strait As in school, excellent musician, great artist, never got in trouble, told funny jokes and seamed to excel at anything he tried. He seamed was much better that me at most things. He was highly favored by my parents and got many privileges. I loved and admired my older brother and was somewhat jealous of him.

Why would my older brother, Jesus would want me to worship him, kneel down before him, bath his feet with my tears and kiss his them. Please, no brother would want that. He already gets to be God with out having to come down to Earth to be tested first, like the rest of us do, now I have to worship him too and ask him to forgive my sins because I’m not “perfect” like he is. I’ll admit I had a few jealous issues with Jesus too, like I did with my other older brother.

Is Jesus our elder brother just like us but further on? Or is He God in the fullest and most glorious sense possible, with all we need to be saved and satisfied forever?

The Joy set before Christ was the glory that he held before with the Father, (John 17:5)  when He was already equal with the Father (Philippians 2:5-11)being revealed to His people (John 17:24) that we might enjoy it forever (1 Thessalonians 4:17), don’t miss out on this by seeing Christ as merely another man with an exalted status. He the way the truth and the life (John 14:6) not our brother.